Kellwolf's Major Airline Experience

S
matman said:
You can't go back to the airline you flew for OR who they affiliate with. So for example if you work for Skywest who flys for every major your most likely SOL.
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OK, so it sounds like you can't leave for many places within two years. What's the penalty if you do?
 
I'm thinking by "affiliate," it likely means an airline owned, partially owned by or the parent airline. At least, that's how affiliate is defined elsewhere in the PEA.

This is also assuming they enforce it. This was in past PEAs to keep guys from accepting recall right after they finished training. The way I read it, worst case, if you left Eagle, you couldn't go to American (parent company,) but Delta and United are fair game. Same with Endeavor/Delta. The only real way to find out is for someone to do it and see what happens. I don't see many people coming here and then going right back to the regional they came from.
 
Kellwolf I'm with you on this one.....As I said elsewhere it's worth bringing up either in a conference call or roadshow. The die-hard Black Helicopter group would agrue that it means anyone that your former company ever corresponded with.
 
So, it's not defined and the penalty is not defined. Great! I hope people have a lot of money to pay lawyers if they leave within two years of hire. Add this to the "dependability" policy, no premium pay and health insurance and you have no choice but to sign a card. Imagine what you will have to give up to get back what you have lost! I am management and not pro-union, but I recognize the need for a union when I see it!
 
The penalty actually is defined. It goes to court, if enforced, and the pilot is on the hook for monetary damages as well as legal fees. People have been posting one or two paragraphs on the Internet. The clause itself is two pages. Last line says it "shall be governed by and construed in accordance with the laws of the State of Florida." Florida's legal definition of "affiliate" basically says there has to be some form of ownership or direct control involved. I'd go out on a limb and say Delta doesn't "control" Skywest or Republic. That would mean they would be able to affect their operations with other carriers. However, Delta DOES control Endeavor, but the clause lists "parent" in there, so we're all on the same page there.

I think we're getting wrapped up on the term "regional affiliate" which isn't necessarily the same as the legal definition of affiliate. This is just me playing armchair lawyer, through. Honestly, the only way we'll know for sure is if someone from Endeavor or Skywest gets hired at jetBlue, then leaves for Delta inside of two years.

As for the dependability policy, I'm not a fan of how it was implemented, but I only have issue with a couple of things (10 total days in 12 months and the "critical staffing" clause). It's not like other majors don't have an attendance policy. I actually thought the commuter part was crazy relaxed, especially if you commute on jetBlue.
 
What are monetary damages? If you leave in month 23, do you pay back all training costs, medical insurance, benefits, match on retirement plans, etc? And did they define affiliate?

They are banking on the fact that their lawyers have deeper pockets than you do.
 
Yes. Sign the card. I never thought I would say this! But any company in a union campaign deserves it because they are not treating employees right.
 
It sounds like if you leave a Delta Connection carrier to go to jetblue, you then can't go to big Delta for 2 years. Unfortunately, the language in many places in the PEA is very vague. Also, the 13% (raise) is only 13% if you don't currently credit more than 78 hours. For example, as a reserve with a 75 hour guarantee, I will get the full 13% raise advantage. If my credit for the month was 85 hours, I would only get about a 6% raise. If I am hard-charger and credit around 100 hours you get about a 1.8% raise. The language regarding 5 five year re-up and to when exactly the agreement will be back-dated is disturbing.

I can't believe the pay rate adjustment still comes in below PSIA and they're taking away premium pay. I'm waiting for some feeback from the PVC and our SME's before I sign it. Regardless, I look forward to getting to work on our first CBA.

www.bluetruthpilots.com
 
As I said on that other site, the legal definition of "affiliate" and the definition involved as a "regional affiliate" aren't necessarily the same. If everyone called them regional "partners," we wouldn't have so many people jumping on the pile on this. They say "affiliate" not because it's true in a legal sense (contracted partner or contracted carrier would be more accurate), but because it sounds fancier for marketing.
 
On the conference call now. Sounds like the intent of the non-compete clause is in case of a mass exodus. Basically, they said it's been in all the PEAs previously as a reference, but it's never been enforced and there is no intent to do so. Only reason it's there is in case people start coming here and leaving shortly afterwards. It was brought up that the penalties aren't define, so there's a possibility of altering it to something that reads more of a standard training contract with pro rated penalties.

My guess: it's a two year training agreement no matter where you're coming from (although coming from Part 91 or 135 you could argue out of it), but no plans to actually enforce it. As of right now.
 
The problem with a lot of what Rob is saying is that it all rests on "intent". It's nice to know what the intention is but if it's not in writing, it doesn't mean much. The "Evergreen" policy is the perfect example. I don't believe the company intends to let guys go at year 10, but following what is actually written, it is absolutely possible. Rob said they will look at these issues, but are they going to be fixed before the Dec 11th deadline?
 
Agree with you 100%. Intentions change over time, and managers come and go. One guy's intent might not be the same as the next. I'd like to see them fix a lot of what they said needs to be fixed, but I don't see how they'll do it by the 11th. Likely see ANOTHER PEA ammendment in a few months. Maybe.

Also some good points. One guy that lives in base said he'd have to fly 102 hours a month to make up for the loss of premium pay. If I were him, I probably wouldn't sign the new PEA. I'd have to think long and hard if I were only a month or two in as well. First year guys are getting SCREWED with first year pay staying the same AND losing premium.
 
kellwolf said:
Also some good points. One guy that lives in base said he'd have to fly 102 hours a month to make up for the loss of premium pay. If I were him, I probably wouldn't sign the new PEA. I'd have to think long and hard if I were only a month or two in as well. First year guys are getting SCREWED with first year pay staying the same AND losing premium.
Click to expand...
 
As a fairly new guy the premium trigger doesn't affect me much. I think I hit 80hrs in Aug and since then nowhere close. By 2nd year I'll definitely have a line and the $10/hr difference will far outweigh the few months of 1st year pay where I'd hit the trigger.
 
So if you're worried about a mass exodus...cause I mean really...where are (insert JBU pilot group size here) pilots gonna disappear off to in a manner of "mass-exodus" (usually defined as a short-period of time departure from a previous position - so say, 30 days)?

If you're worried about a mass exodus, increase pay, do not remove premium pay, or any other benefit that got you the talent you currently have.
 
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