KCM versus Pilot versus "himself" versus them... or the system? WTF?

CFI A&P said:
Partially correct. The outcome was their intent all along, they just found the weakness in the system and exploited it to accomplish the mission. Having current procedures in place prevent the sequel.

Although, it is my understanding that KCM has been under such scrutiny and is being replaced because of crew members failing to follow the rules, not because of an outside threat.
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How you’re gonna stop intent? They allowed those items back then. No different than allowing 5 men on a plane who can put their 100mL liquids together inflight and have 500mL of whatever.


TSA is just a theater.
 
derg said:
had to sign her majesties affidavit that if my flight was delayed, it was because of my incompetence about following the rules
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Informal SWOT analysis: What if you didn’t sign the thingy?
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
How you’re gonna stop intent? They allowed those items back then. No different than allowing 5 men on a plane who can put their 100mL liquids together inflight and have 500mL of whatever.
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So you're proposing banning men on airlines? Or limit it to four per flight?
 
CFI A&P said:
So you're proposing banning men on airlines? Or limit it to four per flight?
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Disband the TSA. Private security pre 9/11 was fine, just update their guidelines of what is or not allowed in carryons. And whatever computerized checks they do when scanning for people.

And, gasp, a real risk-based security assessment.


I’ve only been back to Pakistan once, and when my wife and I flew, she had a far easier time. Me, I was screened twice, one with a full pat down.

I also flew fly one month before 9/11 through Tokyo NRT and Singapore. Both were far more detailed security checks than anything I’d seen in the US.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
How you’re gonna stop intent? They allowed those items back then. No different than allowing 5 men on a plane who can put their 100mL liquids together inflight and have 500mL of whatever.


TSA is just a theater.
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Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Disband the TSA. Private security pre 9/11 was fine, just update their guidelines of what is or not allowed in carryons. And whatever computerized checks they do when scanning for people.

And, gasp, a real risk-based security assessment.


I’ve only been back to Pakistan once, and when my wife and I flew, she had a far easier time. Me, I was screened twice, one with a full pat down.

I also flew fly one month before 9/11 through Tokyo NRT and Singapore. Both were far more detailed security checks than anything I’d seen in the US.
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I mean other than the hijackings the system actually worked as it was designed on September 11, 2001. It wasn't calibrated to stop that, none of it was, without veering too much into the Old Way of things.

Seriously: Prohibited items weren't let in, CAPPS did its thing and the carry-on luggage was subject to extra screening.

Given how stupid everyone, apparently pilots included, is about their firearms, I don't mind making sure that they don't come to my workplace with one, accidentally or otherwise. It can probably be done better (CATSA/ACTSA agents are all contractors but the standards of screening are strict, and there are places where TSA have outsourced the actual screening bits to contractors including SFO/MCI), but on average making sure no guns come to work is going to be a win.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
I mean other than the hijackings the system actually worked as it was designed on September 11, 2001. It wasn't calibrated to stop that, none of it was, without veering too much into the Old Way of things.

Seriously: Prohibited items weren't let in, CAPPS did its thing and the carry-on luggage was subject to extra screening.

Given how stupid everyone, apparently pilots included, is about their firearms, I don't mind making sure that they don't come to my workplace with one, accidentally or otherwise. It can probably be done better (CATSA/ACTSA agents are all contractors but the standards of screening are strict, and there are places where TSA have outsourced the actual screening bits to contractors including SFO/MCI), but on average making sure no guns come to work is going to be a win.
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Oh don’t get me wrong. I think we fully deserve to lose KCM. We have proven there’s enough idiots in our ranks (especially FAs) that we don’t deserve the privilege of KCM.


I just don’t see how TSA today has made us any “safer.” It’s all a theater.
 
Ah, TSA...I feel for y'all dealing with that theater. A number of years ago, we flew a C-5 to Robins for depot maintenance (drop off/ferry). We were flying home commercial out of ATL later that day. While going through security, the PIC/aircraft commander was selected for "additional screening" and was found to be on some kind of no-fly list. Yes, an Air Force pilot...from Nebraska...named Larry...couldn't fly commercial.

Unfortunately, "leave no man behind!" wasn't the manta of our ops officer, so we left him there to fend for himself but it was resolved in a few hours. He didn't make a scene, he didn't get arrested and he eventually became a great O-6 and retired a few years ago. Oh, and he doesn't fly for Omni, either. ;)
 
HeyEng said:
Ah, TSA...I feel for y'all dealing with that theater. A number of years ago, we flew a C-5 to Robins for depot maintenance (drop off/ferry). We were flying home commercial out of ATL later that day. While going through security, the PIC/aircraft commander was selected for "additional screening" and was found to be on some kind of no-fly list. Yes, an Air Force pilot...from Nebraska...named Larry...couldn't fly commercial.

Unfortunately, "leave no man behind!" wasn't the manta of our ops officer, so we left him there to fend for himself but it was resolved in a few hours. He didn't make a scene, he didn't get arrested and he eventually became a great O-6 and retired a few years ago. Oh, and he doesn't fly for Omni, either. ;)
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Did he ever find out why he was on the list? Or was it a mistaken identity of some kind?
 
HeyEng said:
Ah, TSA...I feel for y'all dealing with that theater. A number of years ago, we flew a C-5 to Robins for depot maintenance (drop off/ferry). We were flying home commercial out of ATL later that day. While going through security, the PIC/aircraft commander was selected for "additional screening" and was found to be on some kind of no-fly list. Yes, an Air Force pilot...from Nebraska...named Larry...couldn't fly commercial.

Unfortunately, "leave no man behind!" wasn't the manta of our ops officer, so we left him there to fend for himself but it was resolved in a few hours. He didn't make a scene, he didn't get arrested and he eventually became a great O-6 and retired a few years ago. Oh, and he doesn't fly for Omni, either. ;)
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The entire no-fly/redress process, well…yeah. My inner civil libertarian has a lot of problems with that.
 
Several things here…..first I love how this dude was pwned by every authority figure he came in contact with. The TSA mgr in particular. “I don’t really care what you don’t want to get into right now!” LOL.

what was he thinking, getting into his civies, then trying to go through security with no ID, or passport ??

Finally the “oh •” look on his face as he contemplated what being banned from the airport for a year was going to look like for his life.

This guy shouldn’t be in charge of a Cessna 150, much less anything at a 121 operation.
 
I have a confession: I can't help but make sarcastic comments when they start rummaging through my bag and pulling out all of my electronics to swab in a certain tiny coastal california airport. (And it's LITERALLY ALWAYS AND ONLY THAT AIRPORT)
I had a TSA agent there get defensive one time and say "BUT WE FOUND AMMO ONCE" and I'm like "In a laptop??"

They pull all our stuff out every time—the whole crew—and they're always pulling out my break-down chopsticks and asking me what they are. I've started kinda just blowing off the questions because they're so freaking annoying. I'm with a crew, in uniform, and I have a crew bag full of stuff. Why yes, that's a vibrator. That's a Dirtywave M8. That's a laptop. My headset.

Or the one time they pulled out my EFB and they're like "What's this?"
"An EFB."
"A what?"
"It's an iPad with good publicity."
"What?"

Normally I'm really friendly to TSA folks, and they're cordial and respectful, but for some reason a few of the small outstations act like they're on a Serious Mission from God and flight crew are THE SEKRIT ENEMEY. Watching all the stuff pulled out of my bag and put on a table just tweaks my sarcasm meter after a while.

But 99.9999% of TSA agents are trying to do their job, and they're just fine. Good people, following their policies and procedures.
 
🦈💜 said:
I have a confession: I can't help but make sarcastic comments when they start rummaging through my bag and pulling out all of my electronics to swab in a certain tiny coastal california airport. (And it's LITERALLY ALWAYS AND ONLY THAT AIRPORT)
I had a TSA agent there get defensive one time and say "BUT WE FOUND AMMO ONCE" and I'm like "In a laptop??"

They pull all our stuff out every time—the whole crew—and they're always pulling out my break-down chopsticks and asking me what they are. I've started kinda just blowing off the questions because they're so freaking annoying. I'm with a crew, in uniform, and I have a crew bag full of stuff. Why yes, that's a vibrator. That's a Dirtywave M8. That's a laptop. My headset.

Or the one time they pulled out my EFB and they're like "What's this?"
"An EFB."
"A what?"
"It's an iPad with good publicity."
"What?"

Normally I'm really friendly to TSA folks, and they're cordial and respectful, but for some reason a few of the small outstations act like they're on a Serious Mission from God and flight crew are THE SEKRIT ENEMEY. Watching all the stuff pulled out of my bag and put on a table just tweaks my sarcasm meter after a while.

But 99.9999% of TSA agents are trying to do their job, and they're just fine. Good people, following their policies and procedures.
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I try not to give TSA a hard time. They'd get dinged if management tells them to do something and they get caught not doing it.

Back when I flew charter, I was required to check client ID's even if they were regulars and I knew them. It sucked being chastised by some of them on a regular who was in a tizzy about having to show it.

Procedures are procedures no matter how ridiculous they be to us.
 
BEEF SUPREME said:
Got the scoop on this one from my buddy at Omni. It makes this whole thread so ironic!
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cool-john-oliver.gif
 
After watching that video, my guess was this guy is an imposter (not a real pilot). But he actually works for Omni? Wow. He shouldn’t be in command of a Little Tikes, let alone a 767/777.




Oh well. Coming soon to a big 3 near you.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Disband the TSA. Private security pre 9/11 was fine, just update their guidelines of what is or not allowed in carryons. And whatever computerized checks they do when scanning for people.

And, gasp, a real risk-based security assessment.


I’ve only been back to Pakistan once, and when my wife and I flew, she had a far easier time. Me, I was screened twice, one with a full pat down.

I also flew fly one month before 9/11 through Tokyo NRT and Singapore. Both were far more detailed security checks than anything I’d seen in the US.
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Private security was fine you say? Pre-what?
 
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