item not on mel question

[riot shields]

flying a seminole, the janitorial heater is not in the weight and balance, but it is inop, can it be taken out and still be legal to fly the airplane? we are having a bit of a problem figuring this out.

 

[Michael95U]

flying a seminole, the janitorial heater is not in the weight and balance, but it is inop, can it be taken out and still be legal to fly the airplane? we are having a bit of a problem figuring this out.

Does the aircraft have an actual MEL approved by the FAA? Or are you talking about the equipment list for that serial number?

§ 91.213 Inoperative instruments and equipment.

(a) Except as provided in paragraph (d) of this section, no person may take off an aircraft with inoperative instruments or equipment installed unless the following conditions are met:
(1) An approved Minimum Equipment List exists for that aircraft.
(2) The aircraft has within it a letter of authorization, issued by the FAA Flight Standards district office having jurisdiction over the area in which the operator is located, authorizing operation of the aircraft under the Minimum Equipment List. The letter of authorization may be obtained by written request of the airworthiness certificate holder. The Minimum Equipment List and the letter of authorization constitute a supplemental type certificate for the aircraft.
(3) The approved Minimum Equipment List must—
(i) Be prepared in accordance with the limitations specified in paragraph (b) of this section; and
(ii) Provide for the operation of the aircraft with the instruments and equipment in an inoperable condition.
(4) The aircraft records available to the pilot must include an entry describing the inoperable instruments and equipment.
(5) The aircraft is operated under all applicable conditions and limitations contained in the Minimum Equipment List and the letter authorizing the use of the list.
(b) The following instruments and equipment may not be included in a Minimum Equipment List:
(1) Instruments and equipment that are either specifically or otherwise required by the airworthiness requirements under which the aircraft is type certificated and which are essential for safe operations under all operating conditions.
(2) Instruments and equipment required by an airworthiness directive to be in operable condition unless the airworthiness directive provides otherwise.
(3) Instruments and equipment required for specific operations by this part.
(c) A person authorized to use an approved Minimum Equipment List issued for a specific aircraft under subpart K of this part, part 121, 125, or 135 of this chapter must use that Minimum Equipment List to comply with the requirements in this section.
(d) Except for operations conducted in accordance with paragraph (a) or (c) of this section, a person may takeoff an aircraft in operations conducted under this part with inoperative instruments and equipment without an approved Minimum Equipment List provided—
(1) The flight operation is conducted in a—
(i) Rotorcraft, non-turbine-powered airplane, glider, lighter-than-air aircraft, powered parachute, or weight-shift-control aircraft, for which a master minimum equipment list has not been developed; or
(ii) Small rotorcraft, nonturbine-powered small airplane, glider, or lighter-than-air aircraft for which a Master Minimum Equipment List has been developed; and
(2) The inoperative instruments and equipment are not—
(i) Part of the VFR-day type certification instruments and equipment prescribed in the applicable airworthiness regulations under which the aircraft was type certificated;
(ii) Indicated as required on the aircraft's equipment list, or on the Kinds of Operations Equipment List for the kind of flight operation being conducted;
(iii) Required by §91.205 or any other rule of this part for the specific kind of flight operation being conducted; or
(iv) Required to be operational by an airworthiness directive; and
(3) The inoperative instruments and equipment are—
(i) Removed from the aircraft, the cockpit control placarded, and the maintenance recorded in accordance with §43.9 of this chapter; or
(ii) Deactivated and placarded “Inoperative.” If deactivation of the inoperative instrument or equipment involves maintenance, it must be accomplished and recorded in accordance with part 43 of this chapter; and
(4) A determination is made by a pilot, who is certificated and appropriately rated under part 61 of this chapter, or by a person, who is certificated and appropriately rated to perform maintenance on the aircraft, that the inoperative instrument or equipment does not constitute a hazard to the aircraft.
An aircraft with inoperative instruments or equipment as provided in paragraph (d) of this section is considered to be in a properly altered condition acceptable to the Administrator.
(e) Notwithstanding any other provision of this section, an aircraft with inoperable instruments or equipment may be operated under a special flight permit issued in accordance with §§21.197 and 21.199 of this chapter.

 

[SteveC]

Does a janitorial heater clean up its own soot marks?


irate:









<edit to add: Janitrol>

 

[wheelsup]

flying a seminole, the janitorial heater is not in the weight and balance, but it is inop, can it be taken out and still be legal to fly the airplane? we are having a bit of a problem figuring this out.

I think you might be confusing the equipment list in the POH vs. an actual MEL.

To give you a hint if the heater is required, I've linked to a MS Word Doc for the FAA's Master MEL for the PA-44.

MMEL for PA-44

Look at page 20 (of the document, it's actually page 21-1 of the MEL). Item 21-1 is the heater. 1 is installed, 0 are required for dispatch, so yes it can be inop according to it's MEL (although you aren't using a MEL from what I gather).

I've used MEL's the last 2 1/2 years, I've sorta forgotten the process needed to placard something inop without one.

 

[riot shields]

thanks for the info guys.
i guess i kinda confused myself. if the heater is taken out for maintinence, how would the new weight and balance be drawn up? is the heater incorporated in the BEW ?

 

[FlySmiley]

Do you use an MEL? If you DO and it is not listed on the MEL (the heater would be) and it is inop the aircraft is not airworthy.

If you do NOT use an MEL, than just follow 91.213 process (not required to be operative by AD's, or by the manufacturer, not a safety hazard, not required by regulations 91.215 or others etc.) and deactivate/placard inop.

If it was removed and not listed on the weight and balance for you to be able to write a supplemental weight and balance, then the aircraft would need to be reweighed and the new BEW/CG listed on a new or supplemental W&B.

This is to be legal. However, you will find that if it is warm outside and nobody uses the heater to find it inop that a lot of pilots will not deactivate/placard, or remove and reweigh.. (not telling you what to do, just how it would probably play out for a lot of people)