Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's?

Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

Not to be offensive one way or the other but to expand a little: The market EMB was driving for was developing countries (as well as the US) who had very low time pilots or would be training a overwhelming number of 0 hour guys and felt simplicity and automation were job 1.

That's true.

I should have started with that then said, if it was designed to work in an undeveloped 3rd world country where pilots were trained at a pilot mill in the states, it'd surely work on US pilots trained at a pilot mill in the states. ;)
 
Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

Yes, lets close all threads.

Sure seems to be the case sometimes, I swear. People here are so easily offended!

Intern Mike and others:
The fact is that certain portions of this industry can be very depressing. The reality of actually working in the industry is quite a bit different than when you're working on your instrument rating and reading "Flying" magazine everyday.

That being said, there are some great things about it too. I still love my job and look forward to going to work, traveling, learning, etc. Just make sure you have a good backup. Getting a degree in aviation management for example, would be a terrible backup. If you have a degree in accounting, finance, engineering, etc. at least you'll be able to get a job if/when aviation takes a nosedive during your career. Also, try to stay out of debt. Debt will absolutely eat you alive in this industry... When I first started out, a wise capt told me to always have at least 6 months of living expenses saved up (ideally even more). I can't even tell you how much peace of mind that fat savings account gives me.

If you prepare yourself well going into this industry, you'll be a lot happier than most of your peers who constantly complain on these boards. After all, happiness means being able to go out and buy beer!
 
Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

I think this thread should be closed. It is down to pure speculation, and quite frankly, depressing.

Like has been said, if we closed all threads that were based on pure speculation, we'd be down to the Lav. Oh, wait. No, political speculation. Yeah, Doug and Kristie could have their lives back. ANYTHING in the airline industry is gonna be based on speculation. I don't even know what my schedule is for next month, but I speculate I'll still be on RSV.
 
Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

Sure seems to be the case sometimes, I swear. People here are so easily offended!

Intern Mike and others:
The fact is that certain portions of this industry can be very depressing. The reality of actually working in the industry is quite a bit different than when you're working on your instrument rating and reading "Flying" magazine everyday.

That being said, there are some great things about it too. I still love my job and look forward to going to work, traveling, learning, etc. Just make sure you have a good backup. Getting a degree in aviation management for example, would be a terrible backup. If you have a degree in accounting, finance, engineering, etc. at least you'll be able to get a job if/when aviation takes a nosedive during your career. Also, try to stay out of debt. Debt will absolutely eat you alive in this industry... When I first started out, a wise capt told me to always have at least 6 months of living expenses saved up (ideally even more). I can't even tell you how much peace of mind that fat savings account gives me.

If you prepare yourself well going into this industry, you'll be a lot happier than most of your peers who constantly complain on these boards. After all, happiness means being able to go out and buy beer!

Absolutely the most important financial rule to live by, i think.
 
Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

Sure seems to be the case sometimes, I swear. People here are so easily offended!

I'm not offended, I just don't appreciate people taking this thread as an opportunity to complain. Things suck, no doubt about it, but what's the point of all the whining? This thread is kicking a dead horse in repeat. It just discourages all the new guys looking for honest perspective. I.E. things won't always be this bad.
 
Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

I'm not offended, I just don't appreciate people taking this thread as an opportunity to complain. Things suck, no doubt about it, but what's the point of all the whining? This thread is kicking a dead horse in repeat. It just discourages all the new guys looking for honest perspective. I.E. things won't always be this bad.

I think guys are just taking the opportunity to vent regards how things currently are. Many have mentioned how they believe the industry will be looking up in the near future.
 
Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

I'm not offended, I just don't appreciate people taking this thread as an opportunity to complain. Things suck, no doubt about it, but what's the point of all the whining? This thread is kicking a dead horse in repeat. It just discourages all the new guys looking for honest perspective. I.E. things won't always be this bad.

Did you start this thread? So why are you so bothered that this thread has some complaining? Why not just read something else or start another one?

New guys need an honest perspective - and if we don't whine and complain about how crappy it is, they won't want to come in without their rose-colored glasses. I'm happy to see new faces - but I want those guys to want change not after being screwed with for a year, but to want change immediately because the system is broken, and badly.
 
Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

I'm not offended, I just don't appreciate people taking this thread as an opportunity to complain. Things suck, no doubt about it, but what's the point of all the whining? This thread is kicking a dead horse in repeat. It just discourages all the new guys looking for honest perspective. I.E. things won't always be this bad.

Ah. I think your running into some frustration because of a school of thought difference. I used to be of the opinion, "keep your mouth shut and work" but I found out that no one knows where the grease needs to be applied. Let me put it a different way.

Some of us complain so that there is recording and knowledge and example of problems we see in this industry. We do not believe things will get better unless we, not the guys running the show, get it changed. Maybe we need to be more constructive, however, given the choice of silence over annoyance give me annoyance any day. Complaints are a first step at change in this industry. Some of us think that those of you all who refuse to complain are those expecting things to magically get better, I don't think that's always the case either.

Try not to get too frustrated at us. I'd like to quote an old friend of the family, a captain for the Nebraska State'es (the state police :) ). One day they were all complaining about something at work and one of the new guys walked in and said they should quit if they weren't happy with the job. Some of the other new guys were mad at him for telling them off, but the Captain who was with them (the friend) simply said, "Stop chasing bad guys around? Are you nuts? I just want to make it better, not go flip burgers." He got a good deal of laughs.
 
Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

Nothing changes till kids stop thinking planes are cool or they raise the 121 SIC requirements to at least 135 PIC. Neither seems super-likely to me. Add in the economic tsunami that is just getting started, and I'll be over here in the beat up freighter keeping my head down and drinking. If you think pining about the good ole days of 1960 is bad, just wait till you're pining about the good ole days of 2005. dbrault has it right, if you're young enough, eject. You can keep the uniform and wear it in the supermarket to pick up chicks, but get a real job. Real job = imagine a skill that is necessary for people to contract, whatever their financial circumstances, and learn it. Repo Man will be a growth industry, for one.

:yeahthat:
 
Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

:yeahthat:

Saying things can't possibly get any worse is like saying "whats the worst that could happen" when crossing a highway full of oncoming traffic.

Worse is unemployment/being furlowed. Maybe getting displaced. All things we are already aware is possible for many (could happen to anyone).
 
Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

Worse is unemployment/being furlowed. Maybe getting displaced. All things we are already aware is possible for many.

Listen, anyone who takes a job in this industry must come to grips with the fact that it is cyclical and furloughs are always a possibility.

Young pilots all need to read "Fate is the Hunter" for many reasons.
 
Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

There is really only one way to look at this QOL situation at the "regional" airlines. For those of you that are employed, things CAN'T get any worse.
And like I always say, first year regional pay is better than first (and second, and third...) year traffic watch pay.

Be happy you have a seat during this game of musical chairs we call the airline industry.
 
Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

Maybe, but it seems like a real long tunnel.
I made less than 20k last year at Colgan and maybe will make mid 20's this year. Upgrade now seems like it may not happen for a long time and top FO pay is not going cut it.
So...
The US Government has made it illegal for us to strike via the Railway Labor Act of 1926 amended in 1936 to also apply to the Airlines and the wages are still about the same as back then.

We have ALPA now, which is great for job protection and I'm glad we do but what are they are going to do for wages and how long is it going to take?
Probably a very long time and when it happens I'm sure it won't be anything to brag about because union or no union, we can't strike. :banghead:

So what do we do now? Just go to work everyday and keep hoping things change on their own? Because they're not. And if there's something we can do, what is it? Quit and go do something else after spending all this time, effort and money on training? I'm all open for bright ideas.

I'm with Sully when he said something about not wanting his kids coming into the industry. It's horrible. Most mainline FA's make more than I and nothing against them but they don't have a fifth of the investment, training or responsibility we do.

So anyway, sorry for the long rant but it's been a sad month and I needed to do that.

The short answer to you is No, there is no light at the end of the tunnel as long as things continue as they have.

I'm not talking about greedy management, non-union pilots, anti-labor government regulations, or low ticket prices. I'm talking about profits. Until airlines figure out how to make money, the pressure to lower labor costs, along with other all other costs, will continue unabated. I don't know what the answer is, but I do know that, until someone can figure out how to make money at this business, don't expect anything to change vis-a-vis wages and working conditions.

Now I am going to jump on the "you knew what you were getting into" bandwagon. But I'm not talking about this airline's payscale, that airlines's work rules, or the other airline's growth prospects. Those things are always changing. I'm talking about your choice to enter an industry that doesn't make money. I don't know what to tell you. You entered a money losing industry. What else could you expect but an overall decrease in the quality of your job?

The good news is that while things may not improve for pilots in general, they can improve for you. Make another choice. Choose another profession. Just because you chose to be a pilot doesn't mean that you always have to be a pilot. You can do other things. If you're smart enough, educated enough, and competent enough to fly airplanes, you are able to change your career path. Make another choice.
 
Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

You even fly in any capacity Sky?

Or just your teacher gig and you haven't been inside the cockpit for a number of years?
 
Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

There are a lot of things horribly wrong with this industry.

But the other day at Starbucks (where else....) I saw a bunch of • looking corporate suits walk in. All strutting their stuff, talking loud, and sucking up to each other. I suppose you just get sucked into that world and become one of them without even knowing it.

I think I'd hate that.

So, who the hell knows!
 
Back
Top