Interline Hostility: A Symptom of Stupidity.

But, this debate isn't for RAH pilots. They've solidified their position. No one is going to change them. They're innocent.

This debate is for the youngsters coming up so they can recognize the scumbag companies like Gojet for what they are BEFORE they apply.

This debate is using one current example of what we are all going to be facing in the future. Where the low bidder gets the flying. And the low bidder is enabled to do so because he has pilots willing to do that flying.


But not scumbag pilots. This should be remembered. Everybody's gotta eat, keep a roof over their head and the like. Everybody wants to get home to see their families. Remember, karma is a cruel mistress. The GoJet of today is the Continental of tomorrow. Don't burn bridges before they're erected, and don't be harsh on pilots for taking a job you wouldn't take because you're too proud to take it. You catch more flies with honey, cliche cliche, but there is truth to it. Remember from your college years what hubris is?

BTW, jetcareers, as far as I see it, is a place for pilots of all companies and backgrounds to come together and communicate, not (NOT) a place for ALPA and USAPA members to bash non-union labor, or companies that are union but don't fall into the specific realm of what we believe in, there has been a lot of this lately, and it is not due to dramatic changes in the nature of the industry, it is due to several individuals who have taken it upon themselves to "cleanse" this industry from the bully pulpit of the internet message forum. Do not bite off your nose to spite your face. We all want better jobs, more money, and the like, but remember, we all need to be able to pay the bills. The day may come when you're on the chopping block and you need to go to a company you have previously bashed because there are no other jobs. Are you going to quit flying and flip burgers to get by? I doubt it. Everybody needs to work. We have enough unemployment in this country and industry before pilots start "going on strike," to support RAH, or whatever. We don't need anymore. Use your head. I know you're smart, you're also well educated, and very solid in your beliefs, that however, does not a good union man make. It makes a zealot, and zealousness is the reason why the anti-union folk have done so well in the past, they're silver tongued devils.
 
I think what he is trying to say is. . .

If you willingly goto a scumbag company, knowing full well how they treat their pilots, how other pilots view the company, you will indeed be considered a scumbag pilot.

One's professional decision impacts ALL of us.
 
I think what he is trying to say is. . .

If you willingly goto a scumbag company, knowing full well how they treat their pilots, how other pilots view the company, you will indeed be considered a scumbag pilot.

One's professional decision impacts ALL of us.

So how is ASA, Comair, Piedmont, Chautauqua, XJT, Mesa any different except by maybe a couple bucks and minor contract differences? And Surreal, how is ASA (Skywest) any different than any other regional except for the fact that you just happened to get there right after a new contract was voted in. How does this make ASA somehow above other regionals?
 
So I can count on one hand the number of union reps in this thread.

What are the rest of you doing to further what you're typing on here?

Anything?
 
Right Seat Gurl,

I applaud your efforts to make people like Velo see reason. Unfortunately, there are people out there for whom it is more important to be angry, cast blame, and "get even" than it is for them to work towards solutions.

I can understand the resentment of TSA pilots towards the intial cadre of pilots who "crossed over." A "good" union member would not have done that. I can understand the frustration some Midex guys might have with RAH guys. But for every transgression by a regional pilot group, I can think of a much larger one, with greater and longer lasting impact, that was perpetrated by a mainline pilot group (American's B-scales in the early '80's anybody?). But anger and resentment don't get anybody anywhere. Neither do jumpseat wars and devisive rhetoric. They only serve to further divide people who are already so divided that nothing gets done. You have to think big picture. Is it more important to work towards the goal, or to pillory a few individuals for their transgressions? To quote a porter on a long-ago Amtrak trip, "To ere is human, to forgive is oh so divine." Everyone makes mistakes. Forgive and forget. Unite. Move on. Until the anger is put aside, you're never gonna anywhere.

Those who persist in petty actions of harrassment and revenge had better go out and dig that second grave, like the the old chinese proverb says, because they're gonna need it.
 
So how is ASA, Comair, Piedmont, Chautauqua, XJT, Mesa any different except by maybe a couple bucks and minor contract differences? And Surreal, how is ASA (Skywest) any different than any other regional except for the fact that you just happened to get there right after a new contract was voted in. How does this make ASA somehow above other regionals?

Are any of the companies you just listed Alter-Ego companies that were developed to get around a company's CBA with a work group?

Riddle me that.

What does me working at ASA have to do with my statement about scumbag operations ran by scumbag management?

And I'm sorry. . .did I some how place my company on some podium of "above other regionals?"

I must have missed that.
 
Are any of the companies you just listed Alter-Ego companies that were developed to get around a company's CBA with a work group?

Riddle me that.

What does me working at ASA have to do with my statement about scumbag operations ran by scumbag management?

And I'm sorry. . .did I some how place my company on some podium of "above other regionals?"

I must have missed that.

Alter ego is a term coined by organized labor. It's used to seize the moral high ground in a labor dispute, and to paint a company as evil, immoral, or improper. It's a tool used by unions to rally the troops around the cause.

I'm trying to figure out what is evil, immoral, or improper about a business man/entrepenuer/risk taker not wanting to do business in a union environment. At best, unions limit a businessmans's ability to dynamically respond to changes in his industry; at worst, they try to wrest control of the company away from him.

It's one thing to insist on safe, healthy, and risk-free working conditions. Because of the efforts of unions, great progress has been made in those areas for the betterment of all. I applaud the unions for that. But now unions are trying to dictate how companies are run and that is not their place.

Employees, union or otherwise, get paid first, regardless if the company is making money. That's the security of being a paid employee. Entrepeneurs get paid last. If I take the risk and start a company, I don't see a dime until all the bills are paid and every employee collects a paycheck. If the company loses money, the employees still get paid. I don't.
 
I can understand the frustration some Midex guys might have with RAH guys.

I've been gone from the D Concourse at MKE for about 8 months now, but from what I understand, the Midwest folks don't hold the RAH pilots accountable for this mess. They both blame the management drones in Indy and the Cookie Palace. They both made a contract that screws their employees. Heck, there were RAH pilots at the MKE rally.
 
Blah Blah Blah Blah

I've said it before, and I'll say it again.

You lack a vested interest in the success of the professional pilot community.

Because of that, I really don't care too much about your capitalistic goals for the industry, or protecting the consumer from having to pay a proper fare for the goods we provided.
 
I've said it before, and I'll say it again.

You lack a vested interest in the success of the professional pilot community.

Because of that, I really don't care too much about your capitalistic goals for the industry, or protecting the consumer from having to pay a proper fare for the goods we provided.

I was just responding to your post about "alter-egos." If you don't agree with me, then tell me how or why I am wrong. But you should have an concern for my views, because I am that consumer that you so glibly dismiss.
 
I don't agree with you because you do not hold a vested interest in the success of the professional piloting community.

You have this Utopian Capitalistic vision, which is one that I - as a trade unionist and working class American - can not agree with.

The End.
 
I don't agree with you because you do not hold a vested interest in the success of the professional piloting community.

You have this Utopian Capitalistic vision, which is one that I - as a trade unionist and working class American - can not agree with.

The End.

My interest in the professional pilot community, vested or otherwise, is irrelevant. It's not a matter of "agreement." I said tell my why I am wrong, not just that you disagree with me. You can disagree with the law of gravity, but that doesn't make it wrong. Tell me specifically why my statements are in error.
 
My interest in the professional pilot community, vested or otherwise, is irrelevant. It's not a matter of "agreement." I said tell my why I am wrong, not just that you disagree with me. You can disagree with the law of gravity, but that doesn't make it wrong. Tell me specifically why my statements are in error.

You're amazing.

You really truly don't get it.

I disagree with you because I have a right to disagree with the statements and opinions of another person.

That doesn't mean that your statements are WRONG or RIGHT. Just that simply I do not agree with your statements on a personal fundamental level.

This isn't about RIGHT or WRONG. It's about setting the foundation for improving the profession. That foundation is going to come through union volunteers, believe it or not.

These union volunteers overwhelmingly do not share your opinion of Utopian Capitalism.

Like I said man, I'm honestly done. If you feel the need to quote me again, don't expect a response.

I will though wait for SoCalAprch's reply to my post that was a reply to HIM, not you.
 
But not scumbag pilots. This should be remembered. Everybody's gotta eat, keep a roof over their head and the like. Everybody wants to get home to see their families...

Ah, the rationalization used by scabs everywhere as they cross picket lines.

The day may come when you're on the chopping block and you need to go to a company you have previously bashed because there are no other jobs..

I see you've fallen into the typical pilot trap. All you think you can do is fly airliners for a living. You'd be dead wrong. Not only are there plenty of flying jobs, but there are other ways for "feed the family" as well. Don't sell yourself short.


If you willingly goto a scumbag company, knowing full well how they treat their pilots, how other pilots view the company, you will indeed be considered a scumbag pilot.

One's professional decision impacts ALL of us.

Exactly my point. If you're flying an Airbus around for $95 an hour, you must know that rate becomes the target for MY management. Likewise if you're flying outsourced work, you encourage MY management to attempt to outsource my job as well.

Please don't do something like that and expect open arms when you're looking for favors from me.

Alter ego is a term coined by organized labor. It's used to seize the moral high ground in a labor dispute, and to paint a company as evil, immoral, or improper. It's a tool used by unions to rally the troops around the cause.

No it isn't. Its a plain, simple description of exactly what an airline like GoJet is. Its certificate is owned by the same corporation. Its sole purpose is to whipsaw Union workers into accepting lower wages. So, again, you're wrong.

I'm trying to figure out what is evil, immoral, or improper about a business man/entrepenuer/risk taker not wanting to do business in a union environment. At best, unions limit a businessmans's ability to dynamically respond to changes in his industry; at worst, they try to wrest control of the company away from him.

Wrong again. How many Unions have taken over Companies in this country? None. Unions exist to improve the wages and benefits of their constituants...Labor. Your position is that Managment should have free rein to reduce costs any way they can, even if its at the expense of the employee groups...while they give themselves big bonuses and stock options for "reducing costs." You really are a Republican stooge, aren't you?

But now unions are trying to dictate how companies are run and that is not their place.

Wrong again. And that's precisely the problem here. The IBT should have stood up and said, "We're not flying outsourced contracts." They didn't. If they were trying to tell RAH how to run their business they would have.

Heck, there were RAH pilots at the MKE rally.

And those same RAH pilots will be flying Midwest routes. Mighty good of them to show solidarity at the rally while updating their MKE Jepps.

But you should have an concern for my views, because I am that consumer that you so glibly dismiss.

And that's exactly your problem. All you're interested in, like every other spoiled brat consumer in the US, is LOW FARES. And you don't care who gets hurt as long as you get that $99 fare.

I said tell my why I am wrong, not just that you disagree with me....Tell me specifically why my statements are in error.

Jesus! How many times to you have to be shown how wrong you are about this entire industry?

As an aside, I find it demeaning and insulting when the response to other people's OPINIONS is:

"Prove it." Or, "show me facts, figures and quotes to prove your argument." Or, "I demand the basis of your opinion."

The difference with you, skydog, is that you don't express opinion. You make statements of "fact" that are virtually always in error. That's where I take issue with you.
 
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