I'm thinking of a career change, looking for advice

[Polaris Cipher]

So a little bit about my situation and then I have some questions. I've always wanted to be a pilot and all throughout my childhood planned on that being my career. I went to school for a degree in aviation at Metro State in Denver, but after getting a very lucrative sales job I ended up dropping out after only one semester. Long story short after deciding that I hated the sales lifestyle I've spend the last year or so looking into other career opportunities.

I'm now 28 and nearly positive that I want to go back to school for that degree and become a pilot, but I have some questions and concerns I'd like answered.

Did I hurt myself too much by waiting this long? I mean, 65 is fairly young in this day and age, and by losing out on 10 or so years concerns me. Can I still have a viable career even starting school at 28 (so at absolute best I'd be 31, probably 32, when I actually started working)? Please be as honest as you can, because making this switch at my age could end up being a pretty bad life decision if I've waited too long.

At what point in my education could I start getting paid to fly, obviously a commercial rating is minimum, but what else is generally need to get a job? I'd imagine instrument rating is a near must, but what else beyond that? Even if in small amounts, anything would be helpful as I don't have any money saved up. Loans and financial aid (and parents) will be how I pay for it, so getting paid to fly would be ideal.

Next, I'm curious what the situation of the job market will be when I do graduate. I'd hate to go through all that only to be set up in a terrible job market at 32 years old. Obviously this can be hard to predict, but if anyone has any idea of what it would be like I'd love to hear about it. And what kind of income range could I expect say 10 years after graduation? I know airline pilots make plenty of money, but I also don't want to get caught making $40,000 a year for my whole life when I have several non-aviation options of making $100k+ available to me. Note that this isn't about the money, I'd gladly take less to fly, and I am perfectly ok with making little in the beginning; I just don't want to be living paycheck to paycheck my whole life.

And lastly, any other advice you can give me? What resources did you find indispensable while studying? Career advice? Any other thoughts? Am I crazy for doing this? lol.

One note in case it matters. Metro State doesn't have aircraft of their own, so I would be taking coursework at the school, while going to normal flight instructors for the actual flying.

Anyway thanks for reading and sorry for the wall of text. This is a huge life decision and any help you could give would be greatly appreciated.

 

[moxiepilot]

Best advice I can give you is find another lucrative occupation. Learn to fly on the side (private, instrument) and enjoy the hobby that way. It takes a good 10 years to make decent money, but you need luck and timing. In those 10 years you probably won't be building the 401k too much, and that's important.

Stay away from the occupation, enjoy the hobby.

 

[Polaris Cipher]

Thanks for your response. I seem to be getting this answer from a lot of people on various sites. Kind of disappointing, but I'm thankful for it. I hadn't even considered the 401k/retirement aspect of making that little for so long.

 

[moxiepilot]

I would have written more, but I'm comin home from the Stan and have a few things to get done. Give me a week and I can type out a longer reason why. But yeah. It's a great hobby.

 

[Polaris Cipher]

I would really appreciate that. Thank you very much.

 

[moxiepilot]

Alright, here's my initial take on things.

I started training when I was 28 at a 141 school. I did it for being able to get student loans. I'm turning 40 this year and still paying those loans off. While I appreciate the knowledge I obtained in ground school, I generally recommend part 61 to folks for a few reasons, finances and motivation being two of them.

28 is by no means too late to start. There are a number of folks on this forum who started in their 40s to begin a pilot career. A few started in their 50s. One difference I see in the age of changing careers is, as I mentioned earlier, finances. Those starting in their 40s have had a few good years to build their retirement savings before going back to meager wages. At least there is a small nest egg that will grow. I think, however, many 30 year olds are just starting to make decent money in a career which they have the opportunity to invest in savings and retirement. As you know, compounding your money is the way to make money in the long run. So, if you already have a nest egg that can grow, maybe making the career change won't hurt you too much in the financial long run.

But, let's look at the reality of beginning a career as a pilot: you will spend at least 6 months in an accelerated program training for private, instrument and commercial. Most people spend at least 3 months to get a private in my experience, closer to 6 if you're not aggressive or have a solid plan to get from here to there. Then, when you get your commercial ticket you'll have a minuscule amount of experience. Let's call it 250 hours. With that experience your options for jobs are limited. You might get a job flying (estimated hours per year in parenthesis):

Skydivers in a 182 (400 in colder states, 800 hours in year round ops)
Banner towing, likely need tailwheel endorsement (500 hours)
Pipeline patrol (750 hours)
Aerial photo (750 hours)
Cargo /cape air (750 hours)
Traffic watch or fish spotting (500 - 1000 hours)
Local sightseeing (Grand Canyon, Disney, intra island Hawaii, etc.; 500 - 1000 hours)

The reason I point this out is because you will most likely need a minimum of experience to land your next job, let's call it 1,200 hours. The other manner to gain experience is through flight instruction, another few thousand dollars to obtain, but your also getting paid as you build hours. If you take that route after your commercial ticket you can expect to teach between 750 and 1000 hours a year. All of these routes bring you to about 1200 hours within a year or so of you certifications.

The next hurdle you want to look into is your ATP. Any long term career is going to require this certification, with very few exceptions. Now that it is past July 31, there are new rules in order to take the written examination. You should look into them as it could be a financial nightmare unless it is incorporated into a job offer.

Putting all the certification and time building minutia aside for a minute, let's assume all goes well for you - no delays in training, immediate job offers, etc. What's your projected salary and can you live off of it?

Year 0 - training; private, instrument, commercial, CFI; zero through 300 hours
Year 1 - flight instructor; 300 - 1200 hours; $30,000 before taxes, no benefits, no 401k
Year 2, 3 - employed at a 121 regional as FO; 1,200 hours - 3,000; $30,000 then $35,000 before taxes, health and dental, 401k matched to 4%
Year 4 - upgrade to Captain at regional; 3,000 - 4,000 hours; $50,000, same benefits as year 2 and 3
Year 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 - hired as FO at legacy airline; 4,000 hours through 8,000; $60k, then $100k and up.

This of course is assuming the stars align with your life, no furloughs, no layoffs, no mergers, upgrade flow, and that basically you should play the lottery because of your awesome luck. I don't know anyone that this type of progression has occurred with, and this is important, within the past decade.

The reason I point this out is that at one point in time this was entirely possible. So you may hear this is doable. If you hear this, ask that person when they started - probably 15, 20 years ago. That's not the current economy and progression any more. Ask recently hired pilots (past 5-8 years) what their progression has been.

My view of the current pilot progression is more along the lines of:

Year 0 - training; private, instrument, commercial, CFI
Year 1, 2 - employed as CFI; $25,000 building hours to 1500
Year 3, 4 - regional FO; $25 then $35k
Year 5-8 - regional CAPT; $40k and up
Year 9-? - mainline / legacy FO; good wages, you've made it...

So it's slightly the same, slightly different than the ideal.

If you can go 8 years without really investing anything in your long term financial goals (401k, stocks, mortgage, etc) then go for it. If you can't, then maybe find a way to keep making money on the side as you progress through the career. Either way, best of luck,hope this helps.

 

[DE727UPS]

If you want to fly, I say go for it. You've already proven you can do something else. In some situations you could combine flying with whatever you were doing before. Yeah, it's time consuming and expensive to get there but if it's really your passion then follow it. The guys that worry me are the young ones who have never done anything else and have no ability to do anything else. Stay single and stay low maintenance. You can do a lot with that.

 

[Gilberto_Farthing]

Hey Polaris Cipher,
"it's never too late to start anything !!".
You can achieve your dream if you want. My brother recently joined Charter College Aviation for his commercial pilot training. He recently awarded a flying and general scholarship. which may overcome your money and financial problem as you have mentioned.

 

[RetiredATLATC]

True enough Gilberto. but he hasn't been on this forum in almost a year and a half. I doubt he will be responding. Cheers

 

[Gilberto_Farthing]

I agree. This discussion is started before a year ago but if in case some one else have the same situation then it may helpful. So I replied here.