If you're thinking about working at Atlas, check this out first...

[Soku39]

First thing is pay isn't 225% of regional pay, second when was the last time you had to fly to a Lat/Long and use a color print out of Google maps as your -9 page at a regional?

Not at the regional, but I fly C-130Hs at my other job, a few weeks ago I monitored HF for 5 hours crossing the pond while making position reports, flying to lat longs, while listening to everyone else check their SELCAL then going back to watching a movie or whatever it is you do in a modern airplane. Last week we lost our GPS and INU and had to fly across ^insert allied middle eastern country here^ raw data VOR to VOR. I fly one of the last planes in a developed countries Air Force that requires you to be a pilot. I'm ok with doing actual work. In the Air Force I use my company jepp subscription to print off dash 9s all the time, and snag other charts that we don't have access to. All the airline guys in the squadron do, but don't worry we have LAIRCM and the F-35 kinda flies.

You've summed up our problem.

Easy to say from the other side.

 

[Jack-A-Roe]

Not at the regional, but I fly C-130Hs at my other job, a few weeks ago I monitored HF for 5 hours crossing the pond while making position reports, flying to lat longs, while listening to everyone else check their SELCAL then going back to watching a movie or whatever it is you do in a modern airplane. Last week we lost our GPS and INU and had to fly across ^insert allied middle eastern country here^ raw data VOR to VOR. I fly one of the last planes in a developed countries Air Force that requires you to be a pilot. I'm ok with doing actual work. In the Air Force I use my company jepp subscription to print off dash 9s all the time, and snag other charts that we don't have access to. All the airline guys in the squadron do, but don't worry we have LAIRCM and the F-35 kinda flies.



Easy to say from the other side.

This isn't about what the job description is or comparing the pay to regional pay.... it's simply about the company timing the purchase of a smaller company to, ONCE AGAIN, avoid negotiations altogether and force another arbitrated CBA onto us.

 

[Soku39]

This isn't about what the job description is or comparing the pay to regional pay.... it's simply about the company timing the purchase of a smaller company to, ONCE AGAIN, avoid negotiations altogether and force another arbitrated CBA onto us.

Once again airline management does not play fairly, how is this different from anywhere else?

I guess I should expand on that.

I worked at XJT the year that resulted in the big no vote, Obviously I didn't vote as I was on a probation. I was impressed to see pilots finally take a stand, then management continued to shrink the operation.

I'm working at PSA where they set net reserves to negative numbers to avoid critical pay, take away our ability to adjust schedules, always short peoples paychecks and many other "shady things"

I watched as Republic management clearly did not negotiate in good faith, no one was surprised, and they'll never answer to it.

And now I'm watching TWA/America/West/US Airways/American whatever unravel in the face of having like what 3 different pilot contracts, and management is worried about what, new uniforms?

This is a screwed up industry where guys are so afraid of losing their jobs that management always has the power, I gave up on even worrying about it.

 

[Seggy]

Once again airline management does not play fairly, how is this different from anywhere else?

I guess I should expand on that.

I worked at XJT the year that resulted in the big no vote, Obviously I didn't vote as I was on a probation. I was impressed to see pilots finally take a stand, then management continued to shrink the operation.

I'm working at PSA where they set net reserves to negative numbers to avoid critical pay, take away our ability to adjust schedules, always short peoples paychecks and many other "shady things"

I watched as Republic management clearly did not negotiate in good faith, no one was surprised, and they'll never answer to it.

And now I'm watching TWA/America/West/US Airways/American whatever unravel in the face of having like what 3 different pilot contracts, and management is worried about what, new uniforms?

This is a screwed up industry where guys are so afraid of losing their jobs that management always has the power, I gave up on even worrying about it.

I'm glad that instead of throwing their hands in the air and saying 'whatever' the pilots at Atlas are fighting for what they deserve.

 

[Soku39]

I'm glad that instead of throwing their hands in the air and saying 'whatever' the pilots at Atlas are fighting for what they deserve.

That's not what I'm doing, I'm deployed at the moment, and working two jobs. I'm kinda busy, but I'm still not actually making real money. Still need to fight to get at least get part of the cake, working at less than great operators has always been part of the equation. I'm very thankful for what PSA ALPA does for us, but it doesn't change the fact the management will always always always play dirty, and pilots by and large do not and have to live in their world and wait 18 months for arbitration on simple matters like critical pay, while management works on their next scheme. As for as I have observed it's just a fact of the business.

 

[SmoothLanderJ]

I didn't need to see those crew meals right before lunch.....

Dang and I thought our crew meals here at "the eskimo" were inadequate! One of the pics said..."a nutritious cheese and tomato sandwich ".....LMAO!

 

[Jack-A-Roe]

Once again airline management does not play fairly, how is this different from anywhere else?

I guess I should expand on that.

I worked at XJT the year that resulted in the big no vote, Obviously I didn't vote as I was on a probation. I was impressed to see pilots finally take a stand, then management continued to shrink the operation.

I'm working at PSA where they set net reserves to negative numbers to avoid critical pay, take away our ability to adjust schedules, always short peoples paychecks and many other "shady things"

I watched as Republic management clearly did not negotiate in good faith, no one was surprised, and they'll never answer to it.

And now I'm watching TWA/America/West/US Airways/American whatever unravel in the face of having like what 3 different pilot contracts, and management is worried about what, new uniforms?

This is a screwed up industry where guys are so afraid of losing their jobs that management always has the power, I gave up on even worrying about it.

My 1300 colleagues and I will just go get high-paying military jobs and "stop worrying about it", too. Sound advice.

 

[Soku39]

My 1300 colleagues and I will just go get high-paying military jobs and "stop worrying about it", too. Sound advice.

Bro, I don't make that much money as a Lieutenant in the military, and when I'm not on orders I fly at the regional just like everyone else. Point was that hostile management is not a good enough reason for me to not work somewhere. If I cared about hostile management I would literally never fly for an airline again.

 

[ScorpionStinger]

Wow, just shocking reading this. Whats shocking is the companies position throughout the lawsuit. Disrespectful IMHO... Sheeesh! I actually 'thought' about applying to Atlas on day. I hope things change for the better. Keep fighting the good fight yall!

"Employer did not present credited evidence or argument that decedent was acting in any way contrary to his employment when he became ill, vomited and ruptured his esophagus, or otherwise challenge that decedent was furthering employer’s interests when he became ill during a layover at the hotel employer had provided after eating a breakfast that the hotel provided,” Judge Renée Cohn Jubelirer wrote for the panel, which included Judges Robert Simpson and Anne E. Covey.

O’Donnell was in good health when he left for a trip that included a flight from Afghanistan to Hong Kong, according to the opinion, but after a breakfast of salmon and eggs that a pilot said “‘did not look good,'” he became sick, experienced chest pain and was taken to the emergency department of Queen Elizabeth Hospital. Doctors discovered that he had suffered a ruptured esophageal wall, Jubelirer said, and within two days he was in a coma. He died the next day after developing respiratory distress, septic shock and organ failure.

Atlas Air initially denied the allegations and issued a notice of compensation denial, but later stipulated that O’Donnell was in the course and scope of his employment when he died, Jubelirer said. O’Donnell’s wife, Venice O’Donnell, presented medical records and testimony from a doctor that a workers’ compensation judge found credible, and Atlas Air presented no testimony to rebut the doctor’s opinions, Jubelirer said. The company argued that if Venice O’Donnell prevailed, it should be credited with an offset for $67,000 in 401(k) contributions it paid Frank O’Donnell, which the workers’ compensation judge rejected because Section 204(a) of the Workers’ Compensation Act doesn’t include fatal claim benefits awarded under Section 307.

In Atlas Air’s appeal to the Workers’ Compensation Appeal Board, the board held that “a traveling employee is presumed to be in the course and scope of his employment when an injury occurs absent the employer establishing that the decedent’s actions were so foreign to his employment that it amounted to an abandonment thereof.” In its appeal to the Commonwealth Court, Atlas Air argued that Section 301(c)(1) of the act requires a claimant to independently establish that the decedent’s death “arose out of and was related to his employment,” Jubelirer said. The company said Venice O’Donnell couldn’t rely on the company’s concession that Frank O’Donnell was acting in the course of his employment when he died"

 

[Hubbs]

Insert corny 'screw meal' joke here

 

[dasleben]

Easy to say from the other side.

You're basically telling me, an Atlas pilot and union volunteer, that Atlas is "good enough" as it is because it pays better than a regional.

Do you see why I might have a problem with that?

 

[Soku39]

You're basically telling me, an Atlas pilot and union volunteer, that Atlas is "good enough" as it is because it pays better than a regional.

Do you see why I might have a problem with that?

Yes, for me as a regional guy looking for any way to get out, it would be "good enough" for me to move on to. I've had a very short (<4 years) career at the airlines and have never flown under anything but very threatening management, and I don't see that changing any time soon.

It's an awful system, and needs to be improved, there is no reason management should hold all the cards all the time, that being said it is not enough to stop me from trying to move on to better things. Best of luck to you and the fellow volunteers on improving what you have.

 

[Jack-A-Roe]

Yes, for me as a regional guy looking for any way to get out, it would be "good enough" for me to move on to. I've had a very short (<4 years) career at the airlines and have never flown under anything but very threatening management, and I don't see that changing any time soon.

It's an awful system, and needs to be improved, there is no reason management should hold all the cards all the time, that being said it is not enough to stop me from trying to move on to better things. Best of luck to you and the fellow volunteers on improving what you have.

I don't recall anyone telling you not to try to move on.


But if you were to get hired and you bring the same attitude of "it's good enough" you might find some resistance. Nahmean?

And congrats on your impending 4 year anniversary in the airlines.

 

[Max Power]

Once again airline management does not play fairly, how is this different from anywhere else?

This is a screwed up industry where guys are so afraid of losing their jobs that management always has the power, I gave up on even worrying about it.

I've never understood this argument. Our industry is indeed broken, but management always has the power, in any industry. You might get their attention, but they always have the power. Witness Envoy as a more recent example. Northwest mechanics struck years ago and they were all replaced. RAH has been a labor vs management battleground since its inception.

And getting a flying job is never that easy, plus having to start back at the bottom, on reserve, as an FO,etc. Trust me, I see your point of taking a stand and the problem is more indicative of the problems facing unionization as a whole. Even as strong as we can be, management holds the cards. All of them. They'll take their toys and leave. And it still leaves us out in the cold. You can see why many are reluctant to take that stand.

 

[Soku39]

I've never understood this argument. Our industry is indeed broken, but management always has the power, in any industry. You might get their attention, but they always have the power. Witness Envoy as a more recent example. Northwest mechanics struck years ago and they were all replaced. RAH has been a labor vs management battleground since its inception.

And getting a flying job is never that easy, plus having to start back at the bottom, on reserve, as an FO,etc. Trust me, I see your point of taking a stand and the problem is more indicative of the problems facing unionization as a whole. Even as strong as we can be, management holds the cards. All of them. They'll take their toys and leave. And it still leaves us out in the cold. You can see why many are reluctant to take that stand.

For me it's somewhere along the lines of wanting to do this job since I was like 7 years old, getting there only to realize how screwed up it is, but realizing that it was too late to turn back.Work will never be perfect, and I've accepted that. If people want to call it resignation then fine, I'm just trying to be real.

And congrats on your impending 4 year anniversary in the airlines.

Well excuseeee me for trying to get out the trenches, what would be good enough for you, 6 years at the regionals? 7? 8? Please do let me know.

 

[Jack-A-Roe]

Dear Fellow Atlas Crew Members,


"I want to take a moment to brief you on a very disappointing set of events that have taken place over the past two days here in New York City. Your negotiating team came to New York with the expectation of continuing good faith Section 6 negotiations for the purpose of reaching an amended CBA. On the first day, Monday, March 14, the company did not meet with us until 4:44 p.m., and then only to tell us that they had no response to the four outstanding CBA articles which the union negotiating team had presented to them last month. It was obvious that the company had done no work on any of it and, again, was unprepared. This, despite the company’s assurances at the last meeting that its negotiators would return with Article 30 (Uniforms) and respond to the Framework Agreement that we had provided to the company’s senior representatives this past December. Quite simply, the company again reneged on its commitments.


At Monday’s late, abbreviated meeting, the company indicated that it would not be responding to any articles which the union had presented and would not be presenting any proposals of its own either. The company stated that it would, however, respond to the union’s framework proposal on how to proceed with Section 6 negotiations for both the Atlas and Southern pilots.


It is clear that the company is attempting to undermine and suppress the legal rights of our crew members. The path suggested by the company will devastate and set back, in a very detrimental fashion, the lives and careers of most of our pilots."



ENJOY WORKING FOR ATLAS, fools

 

[Baronman]

At least they'll deal with how to proceed on the Atlas / Southern negotiations.

 

[saxman]

Almost sounds like many other negotiations of the past few decades. Is it a reason not to go to Atlas?

 

[Screaming_Emu]

Almost sounds like many other negotiations of the past few decades. Is it a reason not to go to Atlas?

I wouldn't.

If it was "hey, the company isn't doing very well, blah blah blah" it would be one thing. But managements decision to go this route is purely out of spite and/or incompetence. They are literally going out of their way to kick us in the ass.

 

[Soku39]

I wouldn't.

If it was "hey, the company isn't doing very well, blah blah blah" it would be one thing. But managements decision to go this route is purely out of spite and/or incompetence. They are literally going out of their way to kick us in the ass.

Sounds like every single regional.