Hypothetically Speaking....

ppragman said:
It's the same reason I couldn't take a patient that would damage the airplane or who was violent and unrestrained (if we could paralyze them that's another story), it wouldn't be safe for my crew and I couldn't guarantee that we'd be a able to use the airplane again after it.

Seriously, it's largely an UNKNOWN illness with a yet to be confirmed transmission mechanism and an incubation period of unknown time. We don't even know HOW to decontaminate the airplane, nor would there be any good protocol for ensuring that the crew didn't pick it up. We could literally reinfect a ton of people by accident, all of whom who are already sick with something else

Give me more data and some training and better suction in the airplane and we're off to the races. But for the time being, we don't know what we're really dealing with, which means there are hazards to my crew I can't predict and they can't predict, "that's a hard no from me dog."

I wouldn't go fly to an airport I couldn't confirm had a safe landing surface, the same principle applies.
Click to expand...

But just like weather or other conditions of the universe, it’s a mitigable risk. Like the morbidly obese guy requiring flight outside CG in particular configuration, or the bends patient that means you need to fly stupid low in weather over an area full of windmills. We as the aviation professional in the room either find a way or explain what it costs in effects/risk to the guy that needs it.

If you’re taking my and others criticisms as some sort of “suck it up ya pansy” then you are way outside the tack we are on.

There are ways of transporting infectious disease patients. Absolutely don’t just be all “whatever let’s go” that’s not what’s being asked, but the hard opposite throw hands up no that others are going with is gonna do way more harm than good. Conditions, training, equipment, all of that stuff exists. That’s indeed what we all pay the CDC to come up with, but what they don’t have is a fleet of air/ground ambulances or their own special hospitals and staffs to throw at a problem like this. That is where the medical professionals (and as aircrew in a medevac you are one) man up, step up, take the equipment/money/advising being thrown at the problem as their form of armor and meet the threat in hand.

Overstating the problems or looking at an associated risk and assigning it an outrageously high value (which is what many are doing) though isn’t going to improve our or even your risk to self. If we can and do transport far far more dangerous and infectious diseases both by air and ground this we can absolutely take on safely and effectively. Adopt a conservative stance whenever possible as far as precautions and procedures but to answer the original question of “would you” the answer damn sure shouldn’t be the hard No that was the general consensus when the fear of this pathogen started up.


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Lawman said:
The fear of this virus largely amped up by media and social media is far outweighing the actual lethality and realistic abilities of this virus.
Click to expand...

Basic rule,

If it's headline news, it's not a real problem for the average American. Pandemics, airplane safety, inner city crime, ect all lead the news, but don't affect my suburban middle class life one bit. OTOH, my daily morning trips to chick-fil-a will definitely kill me.


2nd basic rule,

The media are totally incompetent and alarmist about anything related to airplanes. I assume they are equally inept about nuclear power, infectious diseases, or any other subject.


If my medics feel safe treating a patient, I'll drive the plane and let them deal with medicine.
 
USMCmech said:
Basic rule,

If it's headline news, it's not a real problem for the average American. Pandemics, airplane safety, inner city crime, ect all lead the news, but don't affect my suburban middle class life one bit. OTOH, my daily morning trips to chick-fil-a will definitely kill me.


2nd basic rule,

The media are totally incompetent and alarmist about anything related to airplanes. I assume they are equally inept about nuclear power, infectious diseases, or any other subject.


If my medics feel safe treating a patient, I'll drive the plane and let them deal with medicine.
Click to expand...
and in at least Pats case, it sounds like some of them out there do not.
 
USMCmech said:
Basic rule,

If it's headline news, it's not a real problem for the average American. Pandemics, airplane safety, inner city crime, ect all lead the news, but don't affect my suburban middle class life one bit. OTOH, my daily morning trips to chick-fil-a will definitely kill me.


2nd basic rule,

The media are totally incompetent and alarmist about anything related to airplanes. I assume they are equally inept about nuclear power, infectious diseases, or any other subject.


If my medics feel safe treating a patient, I'll drive the plane and let them deal with medicine.
Click to expand...

Funny thing is this isn’t actually even a declared pandemic per the WHO or the CDC. If this was half as scary as the hype it would be the top story in every news run going.... it’s not.

Now it’s trickling out afte the hype that even amongst the quarantine only a portion were actually asked to do that. A whole swath of people were moved from China to here, given a few tests, and sent about their buisness.

People need to seriously take a step back, calm down, and realize that while being prudent means we don’t ignore it, being alarmist helps nothing and hinders plenty.
 
Lawman said:
Again that’s not a uniquely exclusive club to find yourself in. What do you think is going on in a ground ambulance? A bucket of hot water and a couple wipe downs with a toilet brush?

The fear of this virus largely amped up by media and social media is far outweighing the actual lethality and realistic abilities of this virus. All the “unknowns” of it you keep pointing to are the micro specifics of the strain not the general knowledge of pathogen types after decades of research in that sector.

My favorite take on it is the infectious disease guy I caught on a morning show yesterday. He put it into great perspective when he said there are people flipping out about this virus and the risk to their kids/family who haven’t even gotten their flu shot.

What will kill a lot more people (and it’s not the virus it’s the post infection associated repertory distress it leaves you open to) is going to be when places outside of major medical networks overwhelm their meager capability to respond to a small population of infected patients. Then it becomes the choice of triage and evacuating those patients so they can both receive care and not openly infect others. You as an air ambulance or say a group of paramedics and fire guys as ground transport just flatly say “F no not my problem” and that system of evacuation is broken. Now you’ve got a real pandemic on your hands as isolated community X finds its self with no way to stop the spread of it or fight the effects of it and people really do start dying by the household.


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Click to expand...

What you’ve just described is exactly how medical quarantine works.
 
Lawman said:
But just like weather or other conditions of the universe, it’s a mitigable risk. Like the morbidly obese guy requiring flight outside CG in particular configuration, or the bends patient that means you need to fly stupid low in weather over an area full of windmills. We as the aviation professional in the room either find a way or explain what it costs in effects/risk to the guy that needs it.

If you’re taking my and others criticisms as some sort of “suck it up ya pansy” then you are way outside the tack we are on.

There are ways of transporting infectious disease patients. Absolutely don’t just be all “whatever let’s go” that’s not what’s being asked, but the hard opposite throw hands up no that others are going with is gonna do way more harm than good. Conditions, training, equipment, all of that stuff exists. That’s indeed what we all pay the CDC to come up with, but what they don’t have is a fleet of air/ground ambulances or their own special hospitals and staffs to throw at a problem like this. That is where the medical professionals (and as aircrew in a medevac you are one) man up, step up, take the equipment/money/advising being thrown at the problem as their form of armor and meet the threat in hand.

Overstating the problems or looking at an associated risk and assigning it an outrageously high value (which is what many are doing) though isn’t going to improve our or even your risk to self. If we can and do transport far far more dangerous and infectious diseases both by air and ground this we can absolutely take on safely and effectively. Adopt a conservative stance whenever possible as far as precautions and procedures but to answer the original question of “would you” the answer damn sure shouldn’t be the hard No that was the general consensus when the fear of this pathogen started up.


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Click to expand...

If morbidly obese guy can’t fit on the airplane, they don’t go on the airplane. If bends guy means we have to fly through unsafe weather, we no fly until weather improves. The NTSB accident database is a smorgasbord of air ambulance accidents where flights shouldn’t have taken off, but did.
 
Lawman said:
But just like weather or other conditions of the universe, it’s a mitigable risk. Like the morbidly obese guy requiring flight outside CG in particular configuration, or the bends patient that means you need to fly stupid low in weather over an area full of windmills. We as the aviation professional in the room either find a way or explain what it costs in effects/risk to the guy that needs it.

If you’re taking my and others criticisms as some sort of “suck it up ya pansy” then you are way outside the tack we are on.

There are ways of transporting infectious disease patients. Absolutely don’t just be all “whatever let’s go” that’s not what’s being asked, but the hard opposite throw hands up no that others are going with is gonna do way more harm than good. Conditions, training, equipment, all of that stuff exists. That’s indeed what we all pay the CDC to come up with, but what they don’t have is a fleet of air/ground ambulances or their own special hospitals and staffs to throw at a problem like this. That is where the medical professionals (and as aircrew in a medevac you are one) man up, step up, take the equipment/money/advising being thrown at the problem as their form of armor and meet the threat in hand.

Overstating the problems or looking at an associated risk and assigning it an outrageously high value (which is what many are doing) though isn’t going to improve our or even your risk to self. If we can and do transport far far more dangerous and infectious diseases both by air and ground this we can absolutely take on safely and effectively. Adopt a conservative stance whenever possible as far as precautions and procedures but to answer the original question of “would you” the answer damn sure shouldn’t be the hard No that was the general consensus when the fear of this pathogen started up.


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Click to expand...

Your making us out to need a hero attitude, which is what gets people killed. If the weather sucks, and I am not totally sure of a flight, well, bad day to have that M.I.. I’m not going to risk bending aluminum on a dark snowy night if it increases risk in any way to my crew. Rule number one is everyone gets home. So that precludes going low through a wind farm pretty damn quickly. See Kobe for details.

That can be taken to the folks in the back too, on the medical front. Most of them also said NO WAY. I remember the jet set up for ebola with negative pressure containment. Is this ebola? No. Is three out of a hundred dying? Starting to look like it. I’m not bringing that home to my house.
 
Lawman said:
But just like weather or other conditions of the universe, it’s a mitigable risk. Like the morbidly obese guy requiring flight outside CG in particular configuration, or the bends patient that means you need to fly stupid low in weather over an area full of windmills. We as the aviation professional in the room either find a way or explain what it costs in effects/risk to the guy that needs it.

If you’re taking my and others criticisms as some sort of “suck it up ya pansy” then you are way outside the tack we are on.

There are ways of transporting infectious disease patients. Absolutely don’t just be all “whatever let’s go” that’s not what’s being asked, but the hard opposite throw hands up no that others are going with is gonna do way more harm than good. Conditions, training, equipment, all of that stuff exists. That’s indeed what we all pay the CDC to come up with, but what they don’t have is a fleet of air/ground ambulances or their own special hospitals and staffs to throw at a problem like this. That is where the medical professionals (and as aircrew in a medevac you are one) man up, step up, take the equipment/money/advising being thrown at the problem as their form of armor and meet the threat in hand.

Overstating the problems or looking at an associated risk and assigning it an outrageously high value (which is what many are doing) though isn’t going to improve our or even your risk to self. If we can and do transport far far more dangerous and infectious diseases both by air and ground this we can absolutely take on safely and effectively. Adopt a conservative stance whenever possible as far as precautions and procedures but to answer the original question of “would you” the answer damn sure shouldn’t be the hard No that was the general consensus when the fear of this pathogen started up.


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Click to expand...
Please don't ever fly civilian transport. This is the opposite of what we need. Thanks.
 
Lawman said:
But just like weather or other conditions of the universe, it’s a mitigable risk. Like the morbidly obese guy requiring flight outside CG in particular configuration, or the bends patient that means you need to fly stupid low in weather over an area full of windmills. We as the aviation professional in the room either find a way or explain what it costs in effects/risk to the guy that needs it.

If you’re taking my and others criticisms as some sort of “suck it up ya pansy” then you are way outside the tack we are on.

There are ways of transporting infectious disease patients. Absolutely don’t just be all “whatever let’s go” that’s not what’s being asked, but the hard opposite throw hands up no that others are going with is gonna do way more harm than good. Conditions, training, equipment, all of that stuff exists. That’s indeed what we all pay the CDC to come up with, but what they don’t have is a fleet of air/ground ambulances or their own special hospitals and staffs to throw at a problem like this. That is where the medical professionals (and as aircrew in a medevac you are one) man up, step up, take the equipment/money/advising being thrown at the problem as their form of armor and meet the threat in hand.

Overstating the problems or looking at an associated risk and assigning it an outrageously high value (which is what many are doing) though isn’t going to improve our or even your risk to self. If we can and do transport far far more dangerous and infectious diseases both by air and ground this we can absolutely take on safely and effectively. Adopt a conservative stance whenever possible as far as precautions and procedures but to answer the original question of “would you” the answer damn sure shouldn’t be the hard No that was the general consensus when the fear of this pathogen started up.


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Click to expand...
Well you'll be dead in short order flying civilian medevac.
 
Now he’s dead. While we have no idea of his health history, from a casual glance, he seemed like a healthy mid 30’s guy. He’s dead. Don’t tell me this is just a bad cold, other stuff can kill you, yada yada, this guy is dead.
edition.cnn.com

Wuhan hospital announces death of whistleblower doctor Li Wenliang

Li Wenliang, the Chinese whistleblower doctor who warned the public of a potential "SARS-like" disease in December 2019, has died, according to Wuhan Central Hospital. The confirmation follows a series of conflicting statements about his condition from the hospital and Chinese state media outlets.
edition.cnn.com edition.cnn.com
 
Itchy said:
Now he’s dead. While we have no idea of his health history, from a casual glance, he seemed like a healthy mid 30’s guy. He’s dead. Don’t tell me this is just a bad cold, other stuff can kill you, yada yada, this guy is dead.
edition.cnn.com

Wuhan hospital announces death of whistleblower doctor Li Wenliang

Li Wenliang, the Chinese whistleblower doctor who warned the public of a potential "SARS-like" disease in December 2019, has died, according to Wuhan Central Hospital. The confirmation follows a series of conflicting statements about his condition from the hospital and Chinese state media outlets.
edition.cnn.com edition.cnn.com
Click to expand...
Coronavirus: Dr. Li::Epstein:Epstein
 
Stone Cold said:
But Lawman said....
Click to expand...
They are flying evacuees on Kalitta air.

One of my old Army buddies is moving them. Here’s some pictures he sent me...

They also aren’t burning the airplanes down afterward because this is the end times plague. Lysol... they are killing this the same way they would at any hospital.

Oh and when they moved the Ebola patient, that wasn’t the CDCs plane either. It’s a charter company called Phoenix Air.

They also arent quarantining crews or flying in some ridiculous level of protection, just pretty basic stuff. Plastic wrap around areas, surgical masks and gloves. If you guys wanna buy the dude Beer the rest of his life though he said he is game though. Anybody live in Redmond Washington?
C8FDE19E-64A2-4C65-8010-5DF4CC49CBC8.jpeg
D069C280-2AC3-4EE9-B2C8-C3C2DBF3422D.jpeg
 
Last edited:
Lawman said:
They are flying evacuees on Kalitta air.

One of my old Army buddies is moving them. Here’s some pictures he sent me...

They also aren’t burning the airplanes down afterward because this is the end times plague. Lysol... they are killing this the same way they would at any hospital.

Oh and when they moved the Ebola patient, that wasn’t the CDCs plane either. It’s a charter company called Phoenix Air.

They also arent quarantining crews or flying in some ridiculous level of protection, just pretty basic stuff. Plastic wrap around areas, surgical masks and gloves. If you guys wanna buy the dude Beer the rest of his life though he said he is game though. Anybody live in Redmond Washington?View attachment 51385View attachment 51386
Click to expand...
Um, so, you don't know who I fly for, do you?
 
Stone Cold said:
Um, so, you don't know who I fly for, do you?
Click to expand...

Oh well it must be one of those advanced medical transports that belongs to the CDC....

No?

It’s amazing we managed to take a couple freight 747s and with a little 3M plastic, Lysol, and some Basic Barrier protocols we could safely transport people via air. Yeah what an unobtainable threshold for an air ambulance to meet.

Tell Fitz the Cowboys suck.


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