Hypothetically Speaking....

[Lawman]

Yes, apparently you did miss it, bro. I don't know the full details, as I'm not volunteering for the flights, but I know the 201 "uninfected" that we brought back from Wuhan are in a mandatory 2 week quarantine. I've heard our crews are also in a 2 week quarantine, but don't know for sure.

14 days is the incubation period maximum. They’ve already passed the 3 days observation period and all the testing the CDC went with. This is and the CDC can be quoted on this, their desire to be seen as overreacting rather than have somebody go asymptomatic through the 3 day period, and infect somebody further on and require wider response. This is the absolute best chance of scooping up everybody who is in the most likely category to be infected while they are all in on d place. The government isn’t worried about 174 or whatever carriers of the disease it’s worried about missing the 1-2 that didn’t show symptoms on day 4, go back home, and infect 2 new people somewhere people aren’t looking and starting the chain again. That’s not symptomatic of the capability of the disease, it’s a demonstration of smart resource management to avoid missing patient zero.

Really ask yourself in an infectious pandemic what would put you more at risk, the transport of a known possible with a policy to direct levels of barrier in place, or allowing your local medical infrastructure to become isolated and inundated to the point that your when infections spread to your local community it is now rapidly overwhelmed.




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[Stone Cold]

14 days is the incubation period maximum. They’ve already passed the 3 days observation period and all the testing the CDC went with. This is and the CDC can be quoted on this, their desire to be seen as overreacting rather than have somebody go asymptomatic through the 3 day period, and infect somebody further on and require wider response. This is the absolute best chance of scooping up everybody who is in the most likely category to be infected while they are all in on d place. The government isn’t worried about 174 or whatever carriers of the disease it’s worried about missing the 1-2 that didn’t show symptoms on day 4, go back home, and infect 2 new people somewhere people aren’t looking and starting the chain again. That’s not symptomatic of the capability of the disease, it’s a demonstration of smart resource management to avoid missing patient zero.

Really ask yourself in an infectious pandemic what would put you more at risk, the transport of a known possible with a policy to direct levels of barrier in place, or allowing your local medical infrastructure to become isolated and inundated to the point that your when infections spread to your local community it is now rapidly overwhelmed.




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So, in those paragraphs above, I must've missed where you said, "you're correct, there is a quarantine on asymptomatic people that were evac'ed to the US. My bad." I guess my reading skills are getting worse, bro.

 

[ppragman]

I've heard we're getting more planes ready to head over there also. So, there will be a few crews this applies to.

Seriously, if that's true, get a hold of me, straight up I'll buy those guys a case of beer. If there's a way to get it to them, let's do this.

It's a ballsy thing to do to put a bunny suit on and fly to China to pick up your countrymen from a new virus in a country with an ongoing epidemic.

 

[ppragman]

14 days is the incubation period maximum.

That's not what the CDC says. They say that is likely based on previous experience.

 

[Lawman]

That's not what the CDC says. They say that is likely based on previous experience.

Oh well hell who knows maybe it’s forever. C’mon man there is an evaluation based off odds, experience, and a host of diseases this shares a lot of commonality genetically with.

The average Flu incubation is around 3-4 days. 14 is the absolute longest incubation seen in this and a host of other corona virus strains.

The CDC along with all the other developed countries like Canada and others evacuating people from Wuhan are all working off each other’s homework here to say conservatively 14 days, by then the chances of carrying but remaining asymptomatic are just way outside the odds. The Chinese aren’t even using that long apparently.

If we can (and do) figure out effective and safe means to conduct patient transport of diseases as dangerous as Ebola we can figure out methods and means to protect medical providers from a form of flu.




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[ppragman]

Oh well hell who knows maybe it’s forever. C’mon man there is an evaluation based off odds, experience, and a host of diseases this shares a lot of commonality genetically with.

The average Flu incubation is around 3-4 days. 14 is the absolute longest incubation seen in this and a host of other corona virus strains.

The CDC along with all the other developed countries like Canada and others evacuating people from Wuhan are all working off each other’s homework here to say conservatively 14 days, by then the chances of carrying but remaining asymptomatic are just way outside the odds. The Chinese aren’t even using that long apparently.

If we can (and do) figure out effective and safe means to conduct patient transport of diseases as dangerous as Ebola we can figure out methods and means to protect medical providers from a form of flu.




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Literally no one knows right now, and you've never worked civvie medevac, but you're all in a tizzy because you think someone turning down a flight is alarmist? It's a virus nobody knows much about! When I flew medevac, I did so in a king air, not in some CDC approved negative pressure vehicle. Straight up, they don't pay me enough to do that flight and I get that it's unlikely I'd get ill with proper PPE. None of the sick people I flew had illnesses that were such that they had a 2% mortality rate - that's insanely high, no it's not TB high, but we were tested for that and trained on it.

I sure as • wouldn't fly weird infectious diseases of unknown strength in the PC12, the outflow valve is up in the cockpit! Hell, the medics and nurses would probably cancel the flight before we even got a chance to do it because I doubt the equipment we had on board was adequate for droplet capture.

Not only do our patients have to be "stable" for transport in the fixed wing world, but they also have to have the proper equipment on the airplane to handle em and ideally, you want the airplane to be flyable again after you use it. If your Corona Virus patient spazzes out and vomits uncontrollably / •s themself and makes a mess, you're expecting the RNs and Medics flying to clean up an unknown infectious agent? Nope. We can't pick up the high-risk OB or the 70-gazzilionth cardiac patient if the airplane is grounded for cleanup.

Hell, it doesn't even have to be an infectious agent that could make the flight not happen. I turned down a flight once because a patient had crapped so terribly that the airplane smelled horrific and I didn't think the medics could do a good job with the odor. The pilot of the previous flight had literally gone on oxygen, and the flight nurse was crying - and these are people who smell all manner of horrifying things as part of their career. It was perfectly safe for us to go fly around this stinky airplane, but good CRM means not exposing your crew to something that makes their job harder if possible. Somehow the odor had gotten into the carpet? I don't know how that's possible, but it wouldn't leave it smelled like death himself hard crapped after a hard night of drinking. I grounded it, another pilot grounded it after they tried febreeze, and they just let it air out for several days until it was tolerable.

 

[ahw01]

I straight up texted one of the most experienced flight nurses I know with around 3 decades of experience...

He said, "hell no."

Once again the Hippocratic oath doesn't give you a choice in this. The company can turn it down but a nurse cannot.

"I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures [that] are required."

 

[Stone Cold]

Seriously, if that's true, get a hold of me, straight up I'll buy those guys a case of beer. If there's a way to get it to them, let's do this.

It's a ballsy thing to do to put a bunny suit on and fly to China to pick up your countrymen from a new virus in a country with an ongoing epidemic.

Secretary Pompeo (@SecPompeo) Tweeted:
Proud of our rapid facilitation of the delivery of donated life-saving personal protection equipment and medical and humanitarian relief supplies to the people affected by the #coronavirus in #China. Grateful to the generous U.S. organizations donating to the relief efforts. Secretary Pompeo on Twitter

https://twitter.com/x/status/1224773517704679426

 

[ppragman]

Once again the Hippocratic oath doesn't give you a choice in this. The company can turn it down but a nurse cannot.

"I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures [that] are required."

Lolz.

 

[alaskadrifter]

Once again the Hippocratic oath doesn't give you a choice in this. The company can turn it down but a nurse cannot.

"I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures [that] are required."

Nurses don’t take the Hippocratic Oath...

 

[Itchy]

Once again the Hippocratic oath doesn't give you a choice in this. The company can turn it down but a nurse cannot.

"I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures [that] are required."

Uh.... sure.

3 to go, one to say no. Me me me.

 

[Wardogg]

This thing has killed about 427 people in 3 months. Thats about 142 a month.

According to the CDC, "the overall burden of influenza for the 2017-2018 season was an estimated 45 million influenza illnesses, 21 million influenza-associated medical visits, 810,000 influenza-related hospitalizations, and 61,000 influenza-associated deaths."

Now I can't confirm but let's assume this is a 12 month count, that's 5083 deaths a month. More if the season isn't a 12 month cycle.

Put me in coach, I'm ready to play.

Estimated Flu-Related Illnesses, Medical Visits, Hospitalizations, and Deaths in the United States — 2017–2018 Flu Season | CDC

Links to key resources on the burden of influenza - CDC

www.cdc.gov

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

This thread is scary. The idea that people whose job it is to transport sick people to get treatment think they should be able to refuse to fly sick people because they’re scared is insane. Hope I never need a life saving transport on your aircraft.

 

[z987k]

This thread is scary. The idea that people whose job it is to transport sick people to get treatment think they should be able to refuse to fly sick people because they’re scared is insane. Hope I never need a life saving transport on your aircraft.

Hey look. Another person that hasn't a clue what civilian medevac is.

 

[z987k]

Once again the Hippocratic oath doesn't give you a choice in this. The company can turn it down but a nurse cannot.

"I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures [that] are required."

Dumbest thing I've read today.

 

[Lawman]

Literally no one knows right now, and you've never worked civvie medevac, but you're all in a tizzy because you think someone turning down a flight is alarmist? It's a virus nobody knows much about! When I flew medevac, I did so in a king air, not in some CDC approved negative pressure vehicle. Straight up, they don't pay me enough to do that flight and I get that it's unlikely I'd get ill with proper PPE. None of the sick people I flew had illnesses that were such that they had a 2% mortality rate - that's insanely high, no it's not TB high, but we were tested for that and trained on it.

I sure as • wouldn't fly weird infectious diseases of unknown strength in the PC12, the outflow valve is up in the cockpit! Hell, the medics and nurses would probably cancel the flight before we even got a chance to do it because I doubt the equipment we had on board was adequate for droplet capture.

Not only do our patients have to be "stable" for transport in the fixed wing world, but they also have to have the proper equipment on the airplane to handle em and ideally, you want the airplane to be flyable again after you use it. If your Corona Virus patient spazzes out and vomits uncontrollably / •s themself and makes a mess, you're expecting the RNs and Medics flying to clean up an unknown infectious agent? Nope. We can't pick up the high-risk OB or the 70-gazzilionth cardiac patient if the airplane is grounded for cleanup.

Hell, it doesn't even have to be an infectious agent that could make the flight not happen. I turned down a flight once because a patient had crapped so terribly that the airplane smelled horrific and I didn't think the medics could do a good job with the odor. The pilot of the previous flight had literally gone on oxygen, and the flight nurse was crying - and these are people who smell all manner of horrifying things as part of their career. It was perfectly safe for us to go fly around this stinky airplane, but good CRM means not exposing your crew to something that makes their job harder if possible. Somehow the odor had gotten into the carpet? I don't know how that's possible, but it wouldn't leave it smelled like death himself hard crapped after a hard night of drinking. I grounded it, another pilot grounded it after they tried febreeze, and they just let it air out for several days until it was tolerable.

Again that’s not a uniquely exclusive club to find yourself in. What do you think is going on in a ground ambulance? A bucket of hot water and a couple wipe downs with a toilet brush?

The fear of this virus largely amped up by media and social media is far outweighing the actual lethality and realistic abilities of this virus. All the “unknowns” of it you keep pointing to are the micro specifics of the strain not the general knowledge of pathogen types after decades of research in that sector.

My favorite take on it is the infectious disease guy I caught on a morning show yesterday. He put it into great perspective when he said there are people flipping out about this virus and the risk to their kids/family who haven’t even gotten their flu shot.

What will kill a lot more people (and it’s not the virus it’s the post infection associated repertory distress it leaves you open to) is going to be when places outside of major medical networks overwhelm their meager capability to respond to a small population of infected patients. Then it becomes the choice of triage and evacuating those patients so they can both receive care and not openly infect others. You as an air ambulance or say a group of paramedics and fire guys as ground transport just flatly say “F no not my problem” and that system of evacuation is broken. Now you’ve got a real pandemic on your hands as isolated community X finds its self with no way to stop the spread of it or fight the effects of it and people really do start dying by the household.


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[ppragman]

This thread is scary. The idea that people whose job it is to transport sick people to get treatment think they should be able to refuse to fly sick people because they’re scared is insane. Hope I never need a life saving transport on your aircraft.

There's a lot more to it than that.

 

[Bob Ridpath]

There's a lot more to it than that.

Any chance you could explain the “more” from your perspective?

 

[ppragman]

Any chance you could explain the “more” from your perspective?

It's the same reason I couldn't take a patient that would damage the airplane or who was violent and unrestrained (if we could paralyze them that's another story), it wouldn't be safe for my crew and I couldn't guarantee that we'd be a able to use the airplane again after it.

Seriously, it's largely an UNKNOWN illness with a yet to be confirmed transmission mechanism and an incubation period of unknown time. We don't even know HOW to decontaminate the airplane, nor would there be any good protocol for ensuring that the crew didn't pick it up. We could literally reinfect a ton of people by accident, all of whom who are already sick with something else

Give me more data and some training and better suction in the airplane and we're off to the races. But for the time being, we don't know what we're really dealing with, which means there are hazards to my crew I can't predict and they can't predict, "that's a hard no from me dog."

I wouldn't go fly to an airport I couldn't confirm had a safe landing surface, the same principle applies.

 

[Bob Ridpath]

It's the same reason I couldn't take a patient that would damage the airplane or who was violent and unrestrained (if we could paralyze them that's another story), it wouldn't be safe for my crew and I couldn't guarantee that we'd be a able to use the airplane again after it.

Seriously, it's largely an UNKNOWN illness with a yet to be confirmed transmission mechanism and an incubation period of unknown time. We don't even know HOW to decontaminate the airplane, nor would there be any good protocol for ensuring that the crew didn't pick it up. We could literally reinfect a ton of people by accident, all of whom who are already sick with something else

Give me more data and some training and better suction in the airplane and we're off to the races. But for the time being, we don't know what we're really dealing with, which means there are hazards to my crew I can't predict and they can't predict, "that's a hard no from me dog."

I wouldn't go fly to an airport I couldn't confirm had a safe landing surface, the same principle applies.

Thank you.