Housing prices

You guys live in the wrong place(s). I'm in a 113 year old four-square, something like 1,000 - 1,100 sq. ft. floor plan, and paid less than 10K for a new roof just last month. That includes the replacement of rotted areas not covered by the initial quote. I didn't go with the low bidder, either. :cool:

ETA: Shingle roof. The house originally had slate, but the previous owner made the switch. Slate = $$$

EETA: Complete new roof deck is another level...



Long live Michigan. I like that state.
 
You guys live in the wrong place(s). I'm in a 113 year old four-square, something like 1,000 - 1,100 sq. ft. floor plan, and paid less than 10K for a new roof just last month. That includes the replacement of rotted areas not covered by the initial quote. I didn't go with the low bidder, either. :cool:

ETA: Shingle roof. The house originally had slate, but the previous owner made the switch. Slate = $$$

EETA: Complete new roof deck is another level...

They tightened up the codes in Florida somewhat after Andrew, but after the storms in the naughties, they really clamped down. Everything has to be windproof. Change out that ugly back door one weekend afternoon? Nope, the replacement has to be impact rated, even 20 miles inland. You got to pull a building permit, get a rated door, get a place that is certified to install it and then the county has to come out and inspect it in person. You're talking 3-4 grand, easy. For a door.

Places won't repair old windows, and if you replace them, yup, its gotta be impact glass. Doing a whole house is $80k, easy, if you do the sliders.

Roofs are more of the same. Everything has to be engineered, strapped down, oversized this and that. Do anything on the roof other than emergency repairs, and yup, pull a permit and everything has to be brought to code. Oh yea, good luck changing anything on it without HOA approval.

Part of the reason I won't be sad leaving.
 
How do you run out of water when you're sitting next to the friggin ocean?!


Can't we build facilities that remove salt from water and then purify it for human use? It can't be that hard?
 
How do you run out of water when you're sitting next to the friggin ocean?!


Can't we build facilities that remove salt from water and then purify it for human use? It can't be that hard?

It’s not hard. Boil the water, collect the steam, condense, and bingo, there you go. It just takes a lot of power. A metric asston of power.

Or you can do reverse osmosis. That takes a lot of power too.

There are desalination plants all over the world. It’s big time in the Middle East. Where they have cheap energy.

You also see them where there are zero other options.
 
The roof is done for. 1990 original wood shake (oh I got words to say about that!) roof. Getting roof quotes $25-36k. I'm gonna try and ask for half that amount as seller credit.

Since agent is double dipping, he's gonna give $3,500 to both parties in closing costs.


There's a potential drainage issue I'm trying to get quotes for, but companies are booked a month out. How am I supposed to negotiate without work order estimates to back me up? Its damn nearly impossible to find a contractor to give me an estimate in the 17 day contingency window.


Some cool features too, like the top floor has its own AC compressor, heater unit, wall control; the bottom floor has its own AC compressor, heater unit, wall control. It's a 3,1xx sq ft house so it will be nice to turn air on where we need it most by floor, if needs be.


I mean, overall it's a good house. Most of it is minor stuff (sheath missing, electrical outlet within 4 ft of shower tub, garage door does not have kid-friendly reverse up sensors [that kinda is important], etc. etc.). I don't want to sweat the small stuff. I can get a general contractor to fix minor issues and not make a big deal of that in the inspection request for repair/credit.

I am open to opinions of course. :)

What kind of stuff did you guys send to the seller for a repair request or seller credit when you bought your homes?

Well, the outlet thing is a no brainer. GFCI and let it go. All homes have a laundry list of minor stuff like that.

I'd have to look back at my paperwork, which is packed away, but we probably did a generic amount for the random stuff. (3k?) But, this was back in '17. Although even then to get my place... it was over asking price and etc. etc. I also knew that I was going to be tearing out the furnace and doing a bunch of work right away on the place... carpets to wood floor upstairs, etc.

The garage sensors are a big deal... but, very easy to install. When I did my garage door I went with a jackshaft opener, I have to re-balance the door every couple 3 years but love the ceiling space. My garage isn't a garage.

If you are going to do the roof, then it's time to consider solar... which is another 30ish...

Drainage is a weird one... I had a concrete slope problem (30 years of settling/erosion) and the lack of gutters on my place. With all the hardscape that I did (which was goofed by the contractor, negative slope in one of my drain pipes!) that, well, it cost me a fortune. R/R of hardscape, instillation of drain lines, coring curbs, etc. etc... that's probably 10-40k per side of the house? Hardscape has so many 'options' that a per sq. ft. price can be a huge range.

Really, the question is... how much do you want the place and what are you willing to let go and just pay for down the road.
 
Well, the outlet thing is a no brainer. GFCI and let it go. All homes have a laundry list of minor stuff like that.

I'd have to look back at my paperwork, which is packed away, but we probably did a generic amount for the random stuff. (3k?) But, this was back in '17. Although even then to get my place... it was over asking price and etc. etc. I also knew that I was going to be tearing out the furnace and doing a bunch of work right away on the place... carpets to wood floor upstairs, etc.

The garage sensors are a big deal... but, very easy to install. When I did my garage door I went with a jackshaft opener, I have to re-balance the door every couple 3 years but love the ceiling space. My garage isn't a garage.

If you are going to do the roof, then it's time to consider solar... which is another 30ish...

Drainage is a weird one... I had a concrete slope problem (30 years of settling/erosion) and the lack of gutters on my place. With all the hardscape that I did (which was goofed by the contractor, negative slope in one of my drain pipes!) that, well, it cost me a fortune. R/R of hardscape, instillation of drain lines, coring curbs, etc. etc... that's probably 10-40k per side of the house? Hardscape has so many 'options' that a per sq. ft. price can be a huge range.

Really, the question is... how much do you want the place and what are you willing to let go and just pay for down the road.


When people in California say their garage isn't a garage, is that code talk for ADU?


We like the place. Relatively new for California (1990) and we are putting a new roof on, will update the kitchen, and then eventually all 3 bathrooms.


Immediate concerns are the roof and lack of drainage outside home. I get it, there's hardly rain (except the last 18 months have been dicey for LA rain). But I can't expect to ask the seller to put in a new drainge system for me.

I'm choosing only 3 things for my Buyer Request to Repair/Credit:

1. Roof - seller credit of some amount, I'm thinking 50%

2. Termite inspection - if found, treatment coverage from seller

3. Temporary fix of epoxy filler on the edge where the stucco meets the cement for the patio and driveway, in order to prevent water intrusion. That should last ~12 months while I move in and then get a proper drainage company to fix it.


That's it. I don't think my requests are unreasonable. They're all related to foundation/structure. I'm not gonna sweat the small stuff.
 
If you are going to do the roof, then it's time to consider solar... which is another 30ish....

Counter to that… if you live in an Area where 90% of the buyers are pulling VA loans avoid solar. Cash in hand buyers… hey go nuts.

They won’t let it be written into the assessment value of the house, so if you’re carrying a 30-40k solar loan because you did it last year, you effectively need somebody to come up with that total cash. VA didn’t even care if the loan was transferable because that gets wonky on their credit underwriting (think buying a car right before you try to close a mortgage).

It’s the only reason I don’t put them on my house now. I’m in the perfect place for it, but I need 18 month flexibility to seeing an upcoming change in my life. Don’t plan on selling the house, but didn’t plan on selling the other 2 either.


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On todays episode of NIMBY’s gone wild…
TL;DR there is a patch of land in downtown that was purchased by the state many years ago to build a new capital building. That never happened, so they transferred it to the city. There are a few homes on it but lots of room to build more. Keep in mind this is a perfect place for more housing, in an already dense walkable part of the city with easy access to transit. Building there is the opposite of sprawly suburbia type development. People are objecting even to plans that keep the existing housing because of “nEiGhBoRhOoD cHaRaCtEr”
 
On todays episode of NIMBY’s gone wild…
TL;DR there is a patch of land in downtown that was purchased by the state many years ago to build a new capital building. That never happened, so they transferred it to the city. There are a few homes on it but lots of room to build more. Keep in mind this is a perfect place for more housing, in an already dense walkable part of the city with easy access to transit. Building there is the opposite of sprawly suburbia type development. People are objecting even to plans that keep the existing housing because of “nEiGhBoRhOoD cHaRaCtEr”


One reason our housing is what it is today is all the previous generations that got theirs and pushed zoning laws, regulations, etc to stifle new home construction.

Yes/no?
 
One reason our housing is what it is today is all the previous generations that got theirs and pushed zoning laws, regulations, etc to stifle new home construction.

Yes/no?

I'd say no. You can't put 10 lbs of crap in a 2 lb sack.

I currently live in part of my county that was very remote. You have to drive 15 minutes due west from the interstate. That's at 55-65 MPH. That's a pretty long way out into the sticks (or swamp, in this case) in this county.

The road is 4 lane divided. Because of the peculiar nature of the geography and wetlands (AKA swamp) there is a long segment that there is no connection to any other feeder routes. In the morning, it is 100% congested because there is literally no other way to get from here to there unless you go against the flow of traffic, which adds a solid 40 minutes to anywhere.

There were supposed to be protected wetlands/aquifer that was designed to limit the number of homes, which is why all the homes out here have relatively large tracts of land (0.5 to 1 acre plus). Well, someone waved the magic "environmental study wand" and all of the sudden, those problems disappeared, and boom, all kinds of new construction. Much of that construction is literally next to, and in some cases, underneath the final for the local GA airport. It's one of the few new-build airports (1992-ish) and was intentionally built to be in the middle of nowhere, in a swamp so no one would be bothered by it except the alligators and toads.

Unrelated, but they just announced a modification to the Class C that will funnel ALL of the GA traffic right over the new neighborhoods. Let the hilarity ensue.

The county/municipality refuse to allow completion of state roads through the area that would mitigate some of that. If left unchecked, the developers would simply pour more and more housing into the area with zero viable means of handling the traffic. And we're not even talking about water/sewer, schools or any of the other stuff you need to have. They cash out and leave, and you're sitting in traffic for an hour to go 1/2 mile.

This isn't strictly a case of NIMBY. There are serious practical aspects to unlimited construction.

To add some fun to the above, about once a month, there is a bad accident on the road. The local Sheriffs office do what they do, and close the ENTIRE road, in both directions. And you are stuck, because there is no way to get anywhere. The state is in the process of forcing the road construction, but that is grinding through the courts.
 
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One reason our housing is what it is today is all the previous generations that got theirs and pushed zoning laws, regulations, etc to stifle new home construction.

Yes/no?

Yes. It's extra true on the West Coast which has fairly rabid and insane conservationist groups that basically run public policy. In SF, Save the Bay ran a petition to shut down any expansion of SFO which is why it runs on one runway when the ceilings are low. I've experienced it myself while working on volunteer trail builds. A project we started in 2012 or so was shut down because of NIMBY complaints and extreme conservationist interpretation of a small singletrack trail as being a major excavation. This meant the trail was subject to Federal legislation and after hundreds of thousands of community raised funds being spent on environmental impact reports the trail is still not complete.

This is true for any housing development. Scarcity is probably the largest driver on housing price. At least on the West Coast.
 
Yes. It's extra true on the West Coast which has fairly rabid and insane conservationist groups that basically run public policy. In SF, Save the Bay ran a petition to shut down any expansion of SFO which is why it runs on one runway when the ceilings are low. I've experienced it myself while working on volunteer trail builds. A project we started in 2012 or so was shut down because of NIMBY complaints and extreme conservationist interpretation of a small singletrack trail as being a major excavation. This meant the trail was subject to Federal legislation and after hundreds of thousands of community raised funds being spent on environmental impact reports the trail is still not complete.

This is true for any housing development. Scarcity is probably the largest driver on housing price. At least on the West Coast.
Well, there is plenty of built up area that could be made denser but it would “ruin the character of the neighborhood”. Conservation is only one way that NIMBYs ruin everything, there’s also zoning, parking minima, historical preservation….
 
Well, there is plenty of built up area that could be made denser but it would “ruin the character of the neighborhood”. Conservation is only one way that NIMBYs ruin everything, there’s also zoning, parking minima, historical preservation….

All the more reason I am fairly confident in my decision to invest in a house flip. Despite getting derailed by the Ecology Department of Washington State. 🤦‍♂️
 
All the more reason I am fairly confident in my decision to invest in a house flip. Despite getting derailed by the Ecology Department of Washington State. 🤦‍♂️
What sort of derail? I've been dealing with Chelan Co for a couple years on a short plat. Patience is slowly paying off.
 
What sort of derail? I've been dealing with Chelan Co for a couple years on a short plat. Patience is slowly paying off.

They claimed the property was contaminated. So we had to hold the property and go through testing. We have tested 15 sites on the property and have done it all through a reputable consultant. So far no contamination…


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It's crazy the stuff they come up with. I had an tribe two counties away require a 5K survey to be done in case there might be artifacts on my property. I plead my case to the county commissioner and they backed down.
 
Welp. Looks like it's time to move forward.


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