Housing prices

Cherokee_Cruiser said:
$44k for a kitchen remodel (plus appliances) sound about right? Changing tube lights to recessed lighting, new cabinets, countertops, backsplash, sink, under cabinet lighting, and appropriate holes in the wall for gas range exhaust and water line.

I wish I had the skill and patience to do this kinda crap myself. But with three young ones, I have zero desire to get my hands dirty for anything right now.
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Pick up 15 X 10hr 2 days? Personally I'd way rather do that than any of the work. I used to be a journeyman plumber. It sounds a bit on the pricey side but totally appropriate for SoCal if there is a lot of demand.

Just don't do any change orders mid job and you'll be fine. Otherwise the cost will go up at least 2 10hr trips. Up to 5 10hr trips. Depending on what the change order is.

Once you get that bid don't change anything.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
$44k for a kitchen remodel (plus appliances) sound about right? Changing tube lights to recessed lighting, new cabinets, countertops, backsplash, sink, under cabinet lighting, and appropriate holes in the wall for gas range exhaust and water line.

I wish I had the skill and patience to do this kinda crap myself. But with three young ones, I have zero desire to get my hands dirty for anything right now.
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Pretty close, materials have gone up a lot in the last couple of years (especially for cabinets) - devil is in the details. ie. soft closes, pull out shelves, cabinet makeup (construction - off the boat from china vs all plywood for instance), color, stain, pulls, material for the countertop... granite, quartzite, formica. Much of it will be labor. You will probably also need electrical upgrades - what's the panel? 100A. 200A? Are they pulling permits? You want separate circuits for each appliance and I'd get 2 circuits (20A each) for behind the splash. (either do 4 gang boxes and have 2 circuits in each or 'either/or' for each 2g box) Idiot contractor that did the previous owner's kitchen in my place did not bring the electrical up to code. I can't run my microwave and toaster oven at the same time. Flooring? Tile, wood? Materials?

Basically, you need detailed drawings, and a detailed list of specifications so they don't get you with costs for multiple change orders. And even then, budget another 5K or so for unknowns, because they won't know until they do the demo exacly what they are dealing with. You might have an engineering problem, need to hang a new header, etc...

But, this is why I do a lot of this stuff myself. Even though I goofed my tile a bit in the laundry room I showed you.
 
Also, forgot to say Cherokee, congrats, long time coming!

Side note on topic, we toured a house nearby about 6 months ago. 10 acre plot, water/mountain view, really cool location, other than the fact that it is basically ground zero for any tsunami (you don't want to live in low elevation out here). House was smaller, 3 BR, 3 BA, very nicely and recently renovated, but small, with a really large amazing living room and kitchen/dining room/open floorplan. Had a detached enormous garage, quite nearly a hangar in size, with a guest bedroom and kitchenette. Also had a bunch of kids play structures, plus a giant chicken coup, and fenced in garden area. I drove by today, on the way to the vet, and noticed people were finally moving in. Checked Redfin, and it looks like they came down in the final sale from asking, to exactly what they purchased the place for in 2021. I've seen this a couple times now in our market. Things are getting softer. Though I wonder if today's cut in mortgage rates will slow that. Because values always gotta go up right? :rolleyes:

I've said it before, but as a homeowner, I actually want to see prices come down. It is ridiculous and has been for much too long.
 
///AMG said:
Also, forgot to say Cherokee, congrats, long time coming!

Side note on topic, we toured a house nearby about 6 months ago. 10 acre plot, water/mountain view, really cool location, other than the fact that it is basically ground zero for any tsunami (you don't want to live in low elevation out here). House was smaller, 3 BR, 3 BA, very nicely and recently renovated, but small, with a really large amazing living room and kitchen/dining room/open floorplan. Had a detached enormous garage, quite nearly a hangar in size, with a guest bedroom and kitchenette. Also had a bunch of kids play structures, plus a giant chicken coup, and fenced in garden area. I drove by today, on the way to the vet, and noticed people were finally moving in. Checked Redfin, and it looks like they came down in the final sale from asking, to exactly what they purchased the place for in 2021. I've seen this a couple times now in our market. Things are getting softer. Though I wonder if today's cut in mortgage rates will slow that. Because values always gotta go up right? :rolleyes:

I've said it before, but as a homeowner, I actually want to see prices come down. It is ridiculous and has been for much too long.
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Agree with the last sentence. Buying power doesn’t mean shart if you’re paying 30+ percent over what something’s actually worth.
 
Box hauler said:
Agree with the last sentence. Buying power doesn’t mean shart if you’re paying 30+ percent over what something’s actually worth.
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None of it is worth what people are paying. I'll either be vindicated in this belief when widespread amounts of people lose their jobs and foreclose (bad), or I will be proven wrong (kinda bad, maybe not nearly as much so). I'd say it is currently leaning towards the latter, but the millennial in me is assuming the former to be the likely end result
 
Roger Roger said:
We’ve been under-building housing for the last 15 years. With the catastrophic skilled labor shortage building in the trades this is only going to get worse.
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That's valid. Mike Rowe might not have been completely wrong. I think kids would probably be smart to venture into construction vs "tech" in the coming years. Or any sub field (electrician, plumber, etc). Not at all the same kind of construction, but I had a few brown waters at the bar during a work trip with a pretty regular guy who happened to be CEO of a big US construction firm. Was an U/Montana engineering grad, worked his way up from entry level structural engineer. Currently sits on numerous boards, has season box seats at Cowboy stadium, is building his second vacation home and remodeling his primary home. None of this came out initially, he was just another dude that wanted to look over my shoulder to watch the game on my iPad. But those guys are crushing it. Way more than we are. More power to them
 
///AMG said:
That's valid. Mike Rowe might not have been completely wrong. I think kids would probably be smart to venture into construction vs "tech" in the coming years. Or any sub field (electrician, plumber, etc). Not at all the same kind of construction, but I had a few brown waters at the bar during a work trip with a pretty regular guy who happened to be CEO of a big US construction firm. Was an U/Montana engineering grad, worked his way up from entry level structural engineer. Currently sits on numerous boards, has season box seats at Cowboy stadium, is building his second vacation home and remodeling his primary home. None of this came out initially, he was just another dude that wanted to look over my shoulder to watch the game on my iPad. But those guys are crushing it. Way more than we are. More power to them
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I got a chance to sit down and chat with a nephew a few weeks back. I really enjoyed discussing (and encouraging) his decision to be an electrician. He’s a couple years into his apprenticeship program. I’ve got a lot of past experience with the trades, so hopefully he knew my words came from a real understanding of where he is coming from, and where he is going.

The only reason I bring this up is because his father (my brother) has bachelor and masters degrees in engineering and is very successful in the automotive industry, and his sister and her husband are both working on their Phd’s/MD in bio-research and medicine. I’m really glad that he had/has the support to choose a quality occupation that suits his skills and interests, and not feel overly pressured to take the higher education route that many people consider “better”. Hopefully his is not an isolated experience.
 
///AMG said:
That's valid. Mike Rowe might not have been completely wrong. I think kids would probably be smart to venture into construction vs "tech" in the coming years. Or any sub field (electrician, plumber, etc). Not at all the same kind of construction, but I had a few brown waters at the bar during a work trip with a pretty regular guy who happened to be CEO of a big US construction firm. Was an U/Montana engineering grad, worked his way up from entry level structural engineer. Currently sits on numerous boards, has season box seats at Cowboy stadium, is building his second vacation home and remodeling his primary home. None of this came out initially, he was just another dude that wanted to look over my shoulder to watch the game on my iPad. But those guys are crushing it. Way more than we are. More power to them
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4642a3c852b7b41323a0bc2f19d53295.jpg


As usual South Park forcing us to look at our faults.

I saved about 1-2 grand this weekend in small engine repair and plumbing because I know how to do that stuff. Meanwhile people like my brother in law are financing the build of your bar buddies swimming pool.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
SteveC said:
I got a chance to sit down and chat with a nephew a few weeks back. I really enjoyed discussing (and encouraging) his decision to be an electrician. He’s a couple years into his apprenticeship program. I’ve got a lot of past experience with the trades, so hopefully he knew my words came from a real understanding of where he is coming from, and where he is going.

The only reason I bring this up is because his father (my brother) has bachelor and masters degrees in engineering and is very successful in the automotive industry, and his sister and her husband are both working on their Phd’s/MD in bio-research and medicine. I’m really glad that he had/has the support to choose a quality occupation that suits his skills and interests, and not feel overly pressured to take the higher education route that many people consider “better”. Hopefully his is not an isolated experience.
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If I had to do things over again and it be in aviation, I could really dig being an electrician.
 
///AMG said:
That's valid. Mike Rowe might not have been completely wrong. I think kids would probably be smart to venture into construction vs "tech" in the coming years. Or any sub field (electrician, plumber, etc). Not at all the same kind of construction, but I had a few brown waters at the bar during a work trip with a pretty regular guy who happened to be CEO of a big US construction firm. Was an U/Montana engineering grad, worked his way up from entry level structural engineer. Currently sits on numerous boards, has season box seats at Cowboy stadium, is building his second vacation home and remodeling his primary home. None of this came out initially, he was just another dude that wanted to look over my shoulder to watch the game on my iPad. But those guys are crushing it. Way more than we are. More power to them
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There is a big difference between the earning power of the CEO's/Project Managers and the individual trades.

That being said, I enjoy listening to Mike Rowe, even if I don't agree with him on well... a lot of stuff. There is a huge skills gap out there. It's also very true that if you are a skilled tradesperson, you do not lack for work.

Lawman said:
4642a3c852b7b41323a0bc2f19d53295.jpg


As usual South Park forcing us to look at our faults.

I saved about 1-2 grand this weekend in small engine repair and plumbing because I know how to do that stuff. Meanwhile people like my brother in law are financing the build of your bar buddies swimming pool.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Exactly this. It's so much easier now than when I was growing up, with a few basic skills and the right tools you can learn to do just about anything with the innertubes and the Utube. I'm not expecting most people to do major remodels like I tend to do on my own (just remodeled my laundry/mud room this past month as 'construction thearpy') but basic home repair stuff is not hard.
 
The big problem I have with the Mike Rowe fans is that they just sort it sweep under the rug the big reasons why more young people aren’t getting into trades. They’d rather complain about how “nobody wants to work” or “they just want to be YouTubers” (as if everyone from his generation didn’t dream of being a pro athlete or rock star) than address real issues like the wear and tear on the body, the occupational hazards (especially at smaller, non-union employers), rampant sexism and racism among the folks who could be mentors to up and coming kids…
 
///AMG said:
Also, forgot to say Cherokee, congrats, long time coming!

Side note on topic, we toured a house nearby about 6 months ago. 10 acre plot, water/mountain view, really cool location, other than the fact that it is basically ground zero for any tsunami (you don't want to live in low elevation out here). House was smaller, 3 BR, 3 BA, very nicely and recently renovated, but small, with a really large amazing living room and kitchen/dining room/open floorplan. Had a detached enormous garage, quite nearly a hangar in size, with a guest bedroom and kitchenette. Also had a bunch of kids play structures, plus a giant chicken coup, and fenced in garden area. I drove by today, on the way to the vet, and noticed people were finally moving in. Checked Redfin, and it looks like they came down in the final sale from asking, to exactly what they purchased the place for in 2021. I've seen this a couple times now in our market. Things are getting softer. Though I wonder if today's cut in mortgage rates will slow that. Because values always gotta go up right? :rolleyes:

I've said it before, but as a homeowner, I actually want to see prices come down. It is ridiculous and has been for much too long.
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QFT. It doesn't matter how much it's "worth" (har har) if there are no qualified buyers.

Roger Roger said:
If I had to do things over again and it be in aviation, I could really dig being an electrician.
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Machinist for me. I never really appreciated it until about 15 years ago.

About 3 years ago my Dad - in his 70s - decided to do exactly this. He bought a Bridgeport 3-axis mill (and a lathe, too) from a guy who was going out of business and started apprenticing with him to make hot rod parts. He's learned a ton and he's making all kinds of custom-fab parts for his own projects and his friends. Skill I don't possess but would love to.
 
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