Hero pilot: Airlines in shambles

[JeffMSU]

Small interesting article posted on CNN.com

Hero pilot: Airlines in shambles

Capt. Chesley 'Sully' Sullenberger says airline industry can no longer attract the 'best and the brightest.'

February 24, 2009: 12:21 PM ET
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Capt. Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger, who has been heralded as a hero for successfully landing a crippled US Airways flight in the Hudson River, told U.S. lawmakers Tuesday that the state of the airline industry is in disarray.
"Americans have experienced huge economic difficulties in recent months, but airline employees have been experiencing those challenges and more for eight years," Sullenberger said. "We've been hit by an economic tsunami, September 11, bankruptcies, fluctuating fuel prices, mergers, loss of pensions, and revolving door management teams who have used airline employees as an ATM."
Sullenberger testified before a House subcommittee along with others involved in last month's emergency landing of Flight 1549 in the Hudson River. All five crew members and 150 passengers survived.
Sullenberger expressed concern that the economic decline has hit the airline industry so hard that "the airline piloting profession will not be able to continue to attract the best and the brightest."
"I do not know a single professional airline pilot who wants his or her children to follow in their footsteps," he said.
"The current experience and skills of our country's professional airline pilots come from investments made years ago when we were able to attract ambitious, talented people who now frequently seek professional careers elsewhere."

 

[TurdBird]

Here's another one from a different source.

http://forums.jetcareers.com/general-topics/83122-hero-advocate.html

 

[surreal1221]

This is the greatest opportunity we have to improve our profession.

Good Job Sully.

 

[LoadMasterC141]

"I do not know a single professional airline pilot who wants his or her children to follow in their footsteps," he said.

Not to pick on this great man, but it seems more often than not students here have a parent airline pilot.

 

[scramjet]

He's right and it's all across the board from pilots to mechanics to operations to flight attendants. My dad, a career airline mechanic, and my mom support me in all my endeavors, but they really would prefer if I did not go into the industry and have strongly hinted as much. That's one of the chief reasons I opted for a degree outside of aviation instead of piloting or aviation maintenance (although I plan on a piloting career). I grew up around a lot of aviation/airline families and my story is not unique...except for the fact that most of my peers have been fully persuaded not to pursue the airline industry altogether instead becoming engineers, businessmen/women, you name it.

 

[CFIscare]

Not to pick on this great man, but it seems more often than not students here have a parent airline pilot.

But how many of those parents pushed their kid into becoming a pilot? If I had to take a guess, I would bet most of those parents would prefer their kids to do something else.

 

[deek]

if it were any other time i would think congress would have a knee-jerk reaction and pass some law to help the airlines out, but since everyone is hurting right now it's tough when every industry comes asking for money. But I think this does more for the public to know about what's going on. This may also stop a lot of kids graduating high school right now to think twice about flight school, which will eventually lead up to a shortage when the US rebounds and airlines grow again I would think.

 

[surreal1221]

I personally don't think it'll take the airlines growing to increase the need for pilots. I honestly expect Age 65 retirements to be our earliest chance of movement in our profession.

Sad as that may be, growth is going to be extremely slow to come.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

You know the old saying, "Don't tell my Mom i'm an airline pilot. She thinks I'm a piano player at a #####house."

 

[mattp1803]

You know the old saying, "Don't tell my Mom i'm an airline pilot. She thinks I'm a piano player at a #####house."

I didn't know that saying, but it's pretty darn funny!

 

[Velocipede]

Probably a better reason than landing in the river that Sully should be considered a hero.

 

[Number1atNumber2]

Probably a better reason than landing in the river that Sully should be considered a hero.

:yeahthat: He's definatly gaining even more respect in my eyes the more he does. :nana2:

 

[Brian Z]

Not to pick on this great man, but it seems more often than not students here have a parent airline pilot.

Reread his comment. He suggests that the parents would not advise thier children on becoming airline pilots. That is different than the children chosing to become pilots.

 

[bafanguy]

Capt. Chesley 'Sully' Sullenberger says airline industry can no longer attract the 'best and the brightest.'

"I do not know a single professional airline pilot who wants his or her children to follow in their footsteps," he said.

"The current experience and skills of our country's professional airline pilots come from investments made years ago when we were able to attract ambitious, talented people who now frequently seek professional careers elsewhere."

Well, I'd like to see the data supporting those sweeping statements.

There are few professions or jobs I can cite that do not have downturns, reverses and disappointments. Even if you own your own business, you are subject to reverses.

Flying for a living is no different in that regard. We have a few considerations others don't ( i.e. medicals that will end your career ) but in the Big Picture, we are no different from any other in being pawns, to a degree, in a bigger scheme that isn't to our advantage every moment: this is just life. And life is often messy.

The idea that todays' experience levels are the product of efforts made years ago is correct. And, that will be a correct statement 30 years from now because life is a rolling continuum.

As for wanting your kids to be airline pilots, you shouldn't WANT you kids to be anything but something that makes them happy, self-sufficient, productive members of society who can look back at the end of their working lives and be happy they went down that road, whatever it was.

I'm sorry to have to say this, but saying that the profession no longer attracts "..the best and brightest..." would mean that many, if not most, of the people on this forum who aspire to be an airline pilot are not "...the best and brightest...".

I'm not prepared to make that statement and don't see how Sully can either.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

I think -- if I may interject my own opinion which is worth precisely nothing -- that Sully is just saying that as the compensation and benefits that made this profession attractive continue to deteriorate, many of those on furlough may choose not to return. Many who would have otherwise pursued a career in aviation may choose another vocation. etc.

The fact of the matter is that pilot compensation has not kept up with inflation since the 1970s. The spending power of the airline pilot salary has decreased almost exponentially since then! On top of that retirement plans that were once worth millions are now barely enough to get by. More days worked. Less vacation. Less commutible schedules...

It's just not the profession it once was and Cap'n Sully is blaming that on the continuous attempts of management to attack pilot compensation and work rules. (Something that, arguably, the shareholders might WANT management to do)

So, that being said. Sully is right. May I use myself as an example? I chose not to return to the airlines after my most recent furlough. I made this choice because of the dramatic reduction in compensation, benefits, and retirement that former airline (and union) negotiated in the years since I was furloughed.

Am I the best and the brightest? Of course not, but the industry did lose a decade of part 121 experience when I chose not to return. If a few thousand people do that, and a few thousand bright and ambitious young pilots (presumably without spiked hair, backpacks, or ipods) chose NOT to pursue the profession because it didn't make financial sense anymore... then the airlines will hire the leftovers.

That doesn't mean that "the leftovers" don't include some really terrific people, outstanding aviators, etc... It means what it means. That people are making the choice to AVOID this profession. In fact it means -- and Sully knows this first hand -- that thousands of highly qualified, highly experienced, furloughed pilots made the CHOICE not to go back to their majors after their furlough. That resulted in a net loss of that experience from the flight deck.

I have a big ego. So i'll say "Right on Sully!" I knew they would miss me!

 

[Snoopy2]

Not to pick on this great man, but it seems more often than not students here have a parent airline pilot.

Kudos to Sully for a fine water landing but that does not equate to him being a "great man".
Just a tad over the top.
Let Sully prove his greatness in the coming years by being a humble advocate.
So far the jury is still out.....

 

[Polar742]

Well put Zap.

I even agree with Velo's statement, and appreciate how he said it in a nice way. Kudos.

 

[bafanguy]

Zap,

None of us can dispute Sully's statement about what has happened to the pay/benefits/retirements of airline pilots; he's dead on.

The problem is no one cares but US ( now you...not me...thank God ). Our problem, not the public's or the Imperial Federal Government's, for that matter. Those clowns are in our lives enough already.

As for people not returning to the profession after furlough, I assume he's talking about USAir furloughs not returning to USAir...and I bet they didn't !! Few have been raped like the USAir pilots. Why go back to another round of beatings if you can fly elsewhere.

It hasn't been documented that the furloughs went into other professions than airline pilot. So his contention that people have left the profession may be correct but just hasn't been documented. I'd love to see the data.

I guess I don't have the bad feelings about the future of the profession he does.

 

[wheelsup]

Jeff Skiles the co-pilot of 1549 was quoted in the New Yorker magazine interview saying his daughter who had just graduated from college as a nurse made more money than him with his 20-some-odd years as US Airways. That article told the the whole truth when it came to pilot pay. It talked about working at the commuters making crap for pay, and the proliferation of the commuters and downward pay at the majors.

Let's be honest folks $60k at UAL as an FO? WTF? What has this industry become? Why spend $50k on ratings, 2-3 years making sub $30k, 2-3 years making sub $60k, all to go back to making $30k your first year bottom reserve at a major hoping to not get laid off??? Why not just spend $20k-$30k on some other degree like a nurse/engineer/etc. and walk out of college making $60k-$80k and be with an employer that acutally CARES about you?

The union made this a great career choice until management started breaking its back, and the commuters started getting whipsawed. There's nothing we can do unless we are all under one single contract, and even then our market pay is significantly less than what we are really getting paid, even today (lots of resumes on file at HR).

Actually even with our current pay structure I wouldn't feel so bad if we weren't always at risk of losing our jobs! Maybe the Government will nationalize the airlines!! Woo-hoo!!! Stable employment, pensions, and benefits for all!!! YES!!!

 

[bafanguy]

Jeff Skiles the co-pilot of 1549 was quoted in the New Yorker magazine interview saying his daughter who had just graduated from college as a nurse made more money than him with his 20-some-odd years as US Airways. That article told the the whole truth when it came to pilot pay.

Wheels,

Skiles may have a daughter who's a new nurse...don't know. But, I think you are referring to an article on Sully and the dim view of the industry written by someone I never heard of and whose credentials were not given. Wish I had the article now but I deleted it.

In the article, there was an ALPA official saying that he had a daughter who is a new nurse and a son who is a software engineer, both of whom the ALPA OFFICIAL was advising against being airline pilots saying his daughter made more in her first year than Skiles does now...not documentation provided.

Well, I read an article on USA Today saying that 20% of new nurses leave the profession in the first year due to horrid working conditions. I'll try to find the link and add it to this post.

Here ya go: http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2009-02-15-nursing-shortage_N.htm