Hero pilot: Airlines in shambles

SeanD said:
Perhaps Captain Sully should head up the FAA.
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Why would we want to strip him of the power he has been given? You don't get to head up a government agency unless you are onboard with the current plan. It usually is not your own.
 
Snoopy2 said:
Kudos to Sully for a fine water landing but that does not equate to him being a "great man".
Just a tad over the top.
Let Sully prove his greatness in the coming years by being a humble advocate.
So far the jury is still out.....
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A leader in the cause of getting better compensation at the airlines has been selected. Whether he wanted it, or not, Sully is the voice of the airline pilot. To appear as more than just a voice in the wilderness, he needs to be backed by all of his fellow pilots. It is very important for all pilots to get behind Sully. The answer should be "Yes, he is a graet man." It will take a great man to accomplish something here. This one will require more than the average Joe. This is a chance for pilots to unite. It's not a time to question his character or to appear as good as he is because an ego is having a hard time being second best. Will he achieve the desired result? I don't know. He has been the only pilot to make the national news pleading the case for compensation without a picket sign in his hand. At least as far as I can remember. Does Hero fit? To you, no. To me, yes. To those passengers, most definately. Support the man. He is your new delegate. I like his actions so far.
 
I believe the politicians were very surprised yesterday because I think they were looking to garner a bit of the 'Feelin Groovy, Blue Skies, Pie in the Sky' still awash after this incident. The news media has laid the Heroes Welcome Red Carpet out for Sully & Skiles and they ( the politicians) just wanted to be associated with it.
As pilots, we appreciate their ( S & S ) effort to educate the public about the effects the 'revolving door management of the airline industry' has had on us concerning pay scale, safety, and retirement.
Unfortunately, I think at this point we'll see the news media turn their noses up. They preferred S & S as the strong silent type.
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Hopefully, his speech will start a little brush fire.

No, the general public isn't going to change it's ill begotten perspective that we're still pulling in $500K/year and working four days a month.

BUT, hopefully he'll motivate professional pilots to actually start standing up for ourselves again, which we really haven't done in decades. Standing up meaning getting (and staying) involved, educating the next generation of pilots (they're coming) and defending our profession from the "fresh out of B-school" grads running the airline and the mind numbing legions of anonymous armchair CEOs that litter the internet thinking they're the reincarnation of Ayn Rand.

I'm trying to paraphrase this so it makes more sense, but I flew with the national strike chairman, and he had a good point. He was doing some work for a large regional that's been through a lot of operational and management challenges and the perspective from the group was, "Who cares, I'm just here for the hours and I'm going to go over to (fashionable regional of the quarter)". Well, guess what. You're probably not. You're going to most likely going to be sitting right there because that (fashionable regional of the quarter) isn't going to be hiring so you'd better start working on making things better for yourself where you are and move UP the food chain rather than laterally if and when the opportunity arises.

We can absolutely restore the profession. Yeah, it's A LOT bigger than simply wearing a union pin, or in some cases joining one, but we're going to have to recognize why things were the way they were back in the glory days, be grippingly honest with ourselves about where we are today and work as a single force to get things back to where they ought to be. And unless we're all on the same page whether it be via a national campaign or winning the struggle to bring back some self-esteem to this profession, guess what, these WILL be your "good old days".

If you think we can't, well, go back to DeVry. If you think we can, well get on it.

A "brown shirts" approach isn't going to work for sure because it fuels the naysayers and turns off people that need to hear the message. However we're all going to have to get on the same end of the rope from student pilots, all the way up to that senior 64.9999 year old A380 captain.

Sorry for the rambling soliloquy.
 
I think this is awesome what Sully is doing. I think I made the remark before, that Sully has the national stage and I hope he uses it for the better of our profession. Maybe he read that. :D
 
I can tell you what I see at my regional, which incidently hasn't furloughed yet. We've got guys leaving of their own accord even without furloughs. It's either "just not what I thought" or "I can't support myself on these wages." In order to get to that covetted major airline pilot job, you need experience. Problem is, people can't afford to even get the experience to get TO that major job. If it was a "Well, I can stick with it a couple more years, and then I'll be making more money" then it would be different. Fact of the matter is, I shouldn't HAVE to be saving a lot of money in order to support my family when I go from a regional CA to major FO, but I do. I've heard the dollar figures on the loans some of the FOs here have taken out, and I quite honestly can't figure out how they feed themselves. You can only take so much of a beating before you play the "is it worth it?" cost effectiveness game. I'm lucky since I did most of my training a) before the price went into orbit and b) without taking out a huge amount of loans.
 
kellwolf said:
I can tell you what I see at my regional, which incidently hasn't furloughed yet. We've got guys leaving of their own accord even without furloughs. It's either "just not what I thought" or "I can't support myself on these wages." In order to get to that covetted major airline pilot job, you need experience. Problem is, people can't afford to even get the experience to get TO that major job. If it was a "Well, I can stick with it a couple more years, and then I'll be making more money" then it would be different. Fact of the matter is, I shouldn't HAVE to be saving a lot of money in order to support my family when I go from a regional CA to major FO, but I do. I've heard the dollar figures on the loans some of the FOs here have taken out, and I quite honestly can't figure out how they feed themselves. You can only take so much of a beating before you play the "is it worth it?" cost effectiveness game. I'm lucky since I did most of my training a) before the price went into orbit and b) without taking out a huge amount of loans.
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That's a good piece of perspective there - thanks for sharing
 
Kell,

Unfortunately, turnover is probably why you haven't furloughed yet. I saddens me to see young pilot's dreams shattered by the abuse they must tolerate at the Regional carriers.
 
bafanguy said:
Wheels,

Skiles may have a daughter who's a new nurse...don't know. But, I think you are referring to an article on Sully and the dim view of the industry written by someone I never heard of and whose credentials were not given. Wish I had the article now but I deleted it.
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Yeah actually that sounds about right...interesting to know about nurses too, you'd think with the high pay they'd stick around a little bit longer.
 
I would love to "fight the good fight" for our profession, and sadly I think I did that by speaking with my feet. Even though I was furloughed in January, I was already planning my move to exit the industry. The whole furlough thing just ended up working out in my favor. I get fired, I get the "guber-mint" check, I get to focus on school for Nursing while out of work. A double bonus was that I made so little first and second year that over half of my schooling has been paid for by the "gub-mint". Upper $50's to start, lots of places pay for future schooling (M.S. and Dr.) and the pay increases accordingly. As well as the experience being transferable, no need to start from the bottom. Why wouldn't I change? That being said, I'm pretty pissed I had to make this choice. It wasn't supposed to go happen this way.
 
wheelsup said:
Yeah actually that sounds about right...interesting to know about nurses too, you'd think with the high pay they'd stick around a little bit longer.
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Money isn't everything...actually in my case it's almost nothing to me liking a job.
 
Doug Taylor said:
We can absolutely restore the profession. Yeah, it's A LOT bigger than simply wearing a union pin, or in some cases joining one, but we're going to have to recognize why things were the way they were back in the glory days, be grippingly honest with ourselves about where we are today and work as a single force to get things back to where they ought to be. And unless we're all on the same page whether it be via a national campaign or winning the struggle to bring back some self-esteem to this profession, guess what, these WILL be your "good old days".

If you think we can't, well, go back to DeVry. If you think we can, well get on it.

A "brown shirts" approach isn't going to work for sure because it fuels the naysayers and turns off people that need to hear the message. However we're all going to have to get on the same end of the rope from student pilots, all the way up to that senior 64.9999 year old A380 captain.

Sorry for the rambling soliloquy.
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I think pilots need to get on the same page with regards to pay/pension for the fight to be successful. Fact of the matter is that $300,000K/yr may never return and the days of $1 million plus, company sponsored pensions are long gone. Unfortunately it's a different world then even 10 yrs. ago and with the depths that the industry has sunk to it will take a long time to claw our way out. What is needed is realistic goals for the short term while building the necessary steps for the long term.
 
pullup said:
Money isn't everything...actually in my case it's almost nothing to me liking a job.
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Depends on the job for me. I love my job. That being said, I still want to be fairly compensated for my work. I'm a twisted individual and enjoy doing my taxes. Doesn't mean I want to go out and do other people's for cut rates, though.
 
ZapBrannigan said:
So, that being said. Sully is right. May I use myself as an example? I chose not to return to the airlines after my most recent furlough. I made this choice because of the dramatic reduction in compensation, benefits, and retirement that former airline (and union) negotiated in the years since I was furloughed.
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And then you've got people like me, who say you know what, screw it. This industry just isn't worth entering in the first place. When they make it worth entering, I will then spend the money needed to get qualified and then I'll enter it.

In the meantime? My medical has expired, I haven't flown in a year. My pursuit of all those ratings has been put on hold. I've got other things I'd rather spend my money on since the end goal is no longer there.

I'll be honest about it. I do it for the money. Period. That doesn't mean I'll stay in a job with crappy working conditions if there's a job that pays a little less with better working conditions. But it does mean you've got to, to steal a line from a movie, "SHOW ME THE MONEY!"

You don't show me the money, and I don't work for you. Or if I'm currently working for you, I do just enough work to keep from getting fired and find a job where they will.
 
pullup said:
Money isn't everything...actually in my case it's almost nothing to me liking a job.
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Agreed!! You always want people entering in/staying with a profession because it's their passion and what they really want to do in life. Funny how the nursing profession has been raised here. I've got 2 family members who've been nurses for many years and both say the quality of the modern day nurse has gone down significantly. Too many people entering that profession do so for the job availability and money rather than the mission. The "best and the brightest" doesn't always equate to the best in that profession.
 
kellwolf said:
Depends on the job for me. I love my job. That being said, I still want to be fairly compensated for my work. I'm a twisted individual and enjoy doing my taxes. Doesn't mean I want to go out and do other people's for cut rates, though.
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Oh, no doubt. What I meant was I wouldn't take a job I despised just because it made good money. I already did that and the best feeling was walking away after 3 years.
 
pullup said:
Oh, no doubt. What I meant was I wouldn't take a job I despised just because it made good money. I already did that and the best feeling was walking away after 3 years.
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Okay, THAT makes sense. The way you phrased it early was tenuously close to "I'd do this job for free." I didn't THINK that was the case, though.
 
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