Hero pilot: Airlines in shambles

Snoopy2 said:
Funny how the nursing profession has been raised here. I've got 2 family members who've been nurses for many years and both say the quality of the modern day nurse has gone down significantly. Too many people entering that profession do so for the job availability and money rather than the mission. The "best and the brightest" doesn't always equate to the best in that profession.
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so true. I'm taking the nursing road because back in the day, before flying, it was one of the paths I was going to head down. Mom's a nurse, grandmother, granpa was a medic in WWII, so on and so forth. Think that career field is in our blood. The $$$ and the job security are just a bonus in my eyes.

To put it in comparison, I've always wanted to be an EMT. just the same I always wanted to be a pilot. Thing is I can't justify doing what I have a passion for with the $9/hr wage for EMT's locally. So nursing it is. Just the same as the flying thing. I had what I thought was an idea of how my career might progress in aviation. Never wanted to get rich, just thought I could justify the investment over time and pay my bills and cover my responsibilities. That just isn't the case anymore. Neither now, or in the future as I see it.
 
Excuse me. . . but what's this discussion really all about?? They told me there was a pilot SHORTAGE just around the corner. . .:D
 
ChrisH said:
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My friends, I strongly believe that we have just seen the beginning of the fight to restore professional aviation. I do not think Captain Sullenberger is saying it is not a good career by ANY means. What he is saying, is that it has taken on multiple economic hits all in a row; and that with effort, we can fix it. To those of you who say Captain Sully said "no end in sight to the downturn" or "professional flying is now for the dummies", you are the reason the airlines are reaming pilots. Think an inch deep below the surface, it's not entirely airline administrations' or the economy's fault, we are to blame for not taking this action way sooner. Pilots represent some of best go-getters of our nation. I have not met one pilot who does not have 10 times the amount of drive, passion and determination of students studying for other occupations. Where we lack, is in our ability to become visibly angry and fight for ourselves. While 70-80% of the problem can be faulted with administration and economics, the rest of that stems from inaction on our part. Captain Sullenberger is the Patrick Henry of our time, and the old saying "no taxation without representation" rings true with his voice. We have to finish what he has started now more than ever; no one is going to hold our hands through this mess.
 
cre8flyer said:
Excuse me. . . but what's this discussion really all about?? They told me there was a pilot SHORTAGE just around the corner. . .:D
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You're exactly right. With all the nay sayers talking down aviation instead of fighting to restore it, many entrepreneurial youngsters like me looking to fly for a living will turn away from their goals. It is obvious too, that planes will downsize and there will be more planes to fly. That compounds the problem and then we will have BAD shortage. Not a shortage that makes jobs more available, but one that will clog up the system in one way or another. We NEED to get more people flying in the coming decade. Boeing's 787 has sold almost a thousand units before even coming into production. The airlines have expressed strong desires to use these smaller, much more fuel efficient planes rather than larger 747/A380 aircraft. If you want my opinion, the A380 will barely sell and Airbus will be screwed because airlines have figured out how valuable a well built and designed plane is to keeping costs down in the LONG run.

A mild pilot shortage can be a good thing, but it works against us even worse than a surplus when pilots become scarce. Who will want to fly when they can never get a flight or it gets cancelled when a crew cannot be scrounged up?
 
Kestrel452 said:
We have to finish what he has started now more than ever; no one is going to hold our hands through this mess.
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Kestrel,

I also don't think Sullenberger was disparaging the profession (he might have been a bit more judicious with his assessment of the people actively aspiring to be a part of it).

I'm not a "youngster" , I did plenty of my airline years both pre and post-deregulation and he can't tell me about anything I haven't experienced firsthand so I agree with his sentiments.

I've watched lots of smart people over the years try to overcome the downturn for pilots resulting in the degree of success you see today.

You are right that only pilots can fix this. What do you suggest pilots do about the situation now ?
 
Well, we both agree that pilots have to be the main force trying to get things done. In regards to what exactly needs to be done, it is a vast web of things. I do not want to try list a bunch of items we need to do, I have not lived through it first hand. However, I do think we are on the right track now with Captain Sullenberger testifying the issues to congress and getting everything out in the open. Everyone said it themselves here on JetCareers, the public has thought for the longest time that pilots are living the best of lives. This is far from the truth for the majority of pilots. So obviously, the previous efforts have not been sufficient. You cannot fix things if people don't know what is wrong. Sully is trying to get us over that hurdle. First things first, gentlemen.
 
Kestrel452 said:
Everyone said it themselves here on JetCareers, the public has thought for the longest time that pilots are living the best of lives. This is far from the truth for the majority of pilots.
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Just to add another example of the public's misconception of pilot pay: I was in the process of buying a house while in training at Pinnacle. The real estate agent was surprised when the mortgage broker said "If we can get through the income process, we're good." She said "Why should that matter? I thought pilots made lots of money?" He laughed and reminded her that I was a first year regional FO. The difference between him and her? He attended Delta State (which has an aviation program) and a lot of his classmates fly for a living.
 
Murdoughnut said:
Maybe not to you - but what about when you have a wife and kids to support. Just something to think about.
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Ah come on. . .why bring in the realities of adult responsibility when you can live the player (balla!) life style and have all the bling you can buy on a 36k a year salary. Especially when you can jumpseat or non-rev down to the beach every weekend and use the whole "I'm a pilot," pick up line.

Maybe it's a condition of the usual audience here, but largely it seems it's the young guns straight out of college with no other previous career experience who are willing to do this job without making any efforts to improve the profession because they're delighted to live the player lifestyle on 36k a year.

:o
 
Kestrel452 said:
In regards to what exactly needs to be done, it is a vast web of things. I do not want to try list a bunch of items we need to do, I have not lived through it first hand.

...with Captain Sullenberger testifying the issues to congress and getting everything out in the open.

...the public has thought for the longest time that pilots are living the best of lives. You cannot fix things if people don't know what is wrong.

First things first, gentlemen.
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Kestral,

Well, you young guys are perhaps the ones able to turn the tide since we old guys haven't been able ( and we haven't ). I'd be curious to know what things you think are necessary and would work. If/when you say "...stand together..." or something along those lines, what does that mean ?

The issues have been out in the open and always have been. Aviation, with its labor issues, doesn't exactly operate in a vacuum. When a President, IIRC, stops the American pilots/FAs from striking, you can bet the pertinent issues are well known in DC, and you know where DC stands on them because actions tell the whole story. Words mean nothing.

As for the public, while I understand the urge to appeal to anyone who'll listen, you ought to appeal to someone who gives a darn; that would not be the public...or Congress either for that matter.

They've both had plenty of access to the information and have done nothing...and won't ( it ain't the public's fight...stop talking to 'em...do what you have to do...stop talking to the public...makes the profession look lame). Once those vote #####s in DC (or any other municipality) get tired of having their pictures taken with Sullenberger et al, they'll drop them, and their cause, like a bad habit.

I really would be interested to hear what you think will work. :):)
 
Ian J said:
I believe pullup is married and has children.
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Correct, thanks Ian. I am married with 2 ankle biters. To clarify: I would NOT take a job with ridiculous pay just because I was happy (ie pilot)...what I meant (as I stated before) was that just because a job has a big salary doesn't mean I would be happy doing it. It in no way means I would be happy making $20k being a regional FO. After all, I have a family to feed!
 
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