Furlough Estimates

Nark said:
@RMCBear08 @Skåning what’s the “extended” mil leave?
We get up to 5 years as it currently sits. No requirement for the company’s approval. Just curious if they extended it beyond 5 years for those currently out.
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A. Eligibility:
Any Pilot who is called to active military service by the United States Government, or volunteers for such military service, between May 1, 2020, and December 31, 2021.

B. Waiver:
As an exception to the maximum military leave a Pilot is automatically granted in Section 13.F [Military Service], a Pilot’s military service as described in paragraph A of this LOA shall not be applied toward the military leave maximum duration provided by applicable law.

Intent:
For example, if the maximum protected applicable leave under law is five (5) years and the Pilot has already exhausted his five (5) year leave of absence to perform military service, the Pilot’s protection will be extended for the length of time he serves between May 1, 2020 and December 31, 2021.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
A. Eligibility:
Any Pilot who is called to active military service by the United States Government, or volunteers for such military service, between May 1, 2020, and December 31, 2021.

B. Waiver:
As an exception to the maximum military leave a Pilot is automatically granted in Section 13.F [Military Service], a Pilot’s military service as described in paragraph A of this LOA shall not be applied toward the military leave maximum duration provided by applicable law.

Intent:
For example, if the maximum protected applicable leave under law is five (5) years and the Pilot has already exhausted his five (5) year leave of absence to perform military service, the Pilot’s protection will be extended for the length of time he serves between May 1, 2020 and December 31, 2021.
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Hmmmmm. Slightly disingenuous... you have 5 years from the start of your orders.
for example, I start tomorrow, I have until 19 June 2025. I come back for 1 day, I am protected until 20 June 2030... etc.
In that example, it would only protect a guy who went out on Mil leave on May 1, 2015 through Dec 2016.
Extreme example, but it seems like Alaska is trying to look like the good guys, for a law they’re already required to follow.
 
Nark said:
Hmmmmm. Slightly disingenuous... you have 5 years from the start of your orders.
for example, I start tomorrow, I have until 19 June 2025. I come back for 1 day, I am protected until 20 June 2030... etc.
In that example, it would only protect a guy who went out on Mil leave on May 1, 2015 through Dec 2016.
Extreme example, but it seems like Alaska is trying to look like the good guys, for a law they’re already required to follow.
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I see what you're saying. If that's how it works I don't see how this can help too many people.
 
Nark said:
Hmmmmm. Slightly disingenuous... you have 5 years from the start of your orders.
for example, I start tomorrow, I have until 19 June 2025. I come back for 1 day, I am protected until 20 June 2030... etc.
In that example, it would only protect a guy who went out on Mil leave on May 1, 2015 through Dec 2016.
Extreme example, but it seems like Alaska is trying to look like the good guys, for a law they’re already required to follow.
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Do you have to come back or attempt to come back? Forgive me because I have not dealt with this issue. For instance, say your airline is not hiring and pilots are on furlough when your orders are up. You are attempting to come back, assuming your seniority is great enough to not be in the furlough pile, and they say we have no need for you right now since we are not actively seeking more pilots. Does the time reset since you made an attempt?
I guess this is also assuming your orders will be extended and you don’t need to waste your time or the company’s time for coming back for a day.
Or am I over thinking this altogether?
 
Nark said:
Hmmmmm. Slightly disingenuous... you have 5 years from the start of your orders.
for example, I start tomorrow, I have until 19 June 2025. I come back for 1 day, I am protected until 20 June 2030... etc.
In that example, it would only protect a guy who went out on Mil leave on May 1, 2015 through Dec 2016.
Extreme example, but it seems like Alaska is trying to look like the good guys, for a law they’re already required to follow.
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Pretty sure the 5 years is cumulative, with a whole bunch of exceptions built in.

So in your example, If you go out tomorrow and come back on June 20th, 2025, there is no clock to reset. You would have used all 5 of your cumulative years in one leave.

We wrote out an LOA that excludes any leave taken between this spring and the rest of this year from the 5 year total.
 
GypsyPilot said:
That's surprising, as I thought AA was basically claiming that they will not have any furloughs. Very tragic and sad, whatever battles they were facing.
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Doesn't have to be work related, maybe the work stress is just the straw that broke the camels back. This whole period sucks. I'm actually doing really well through/because of it, but it's still incredibly stressful watching all my friends (and even people I don't know) suffer through this.
 
So for the SJI folk, what are your thoughts on taking the proposed "temporary" 10 hr ALV reduction? Full pay 'til the last day, or cooperate to graduate? I'd imagine different seniority demographics have differing opinions.....
 
///AMG said:
So for the SJI folk, what are your thoughts on taking the proposed "temporary" 10 hr ALV reduction? Full pay 'til the last day, or cooperate to graduate? I'd imagine different seniority demographics have differing opinions.....
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Reported by whom?
 
BobDDuck said:
And it says cumulative.
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Said a different way: USERRA doesn’t give you 1,825 days of military leave time and then you’re on your own. It affords you reemployment upon returning from military service.
My example was meant as a simplistic overview, not a post-graduate dissection of the law.

I find it really ironic, advocating for the serviceman, and the company replies with “CBA section Xxx says this..” About the only time in history the company backs the CBA.
 
Nark said:
Hmmmmm. Slightly disingenuous... you have 5 years from the start of your orders.
for example, I start tomorrow, I have until 19 June 2025. I come back for 1 day, I am protected until 20 June 2030... etc.
In that example, it would only protect a guy who went out on Mil leave on May 1, 2015 through Dec 2016.
Extreme example, but it seems like Alaska is trying to look like the good guys, for a law they’re already required to follow.
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That rule is cumulative though. Or at least it was, but I don't believe it's changed. If a military member has already used 5 years of MIL leave at a given employer, that employer is not obligated to protect the job if the military member goes on leave again. The 5 year clock does not reset each time you take leave / get new orders.
So as an example, an Air Guard guy who's been at Alaska for ten years who deployed for a total of five years in that time would not be job protected if he wanted to go on military orders again right now by the normal law. But Alaska is offering a guy in that situation a chance to go on orders again for up to a year and still keep his job, even if he goes beyond the 5 years.
 
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Nark said:
Said a different way: USERRA doesn’t give you 1,825 days of military leave time and then you’re on your own. It affords you reemployment upon returning from military service.
My example was meant as a simplistic overview, not a post-graduate dissection of the law.
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Not sure what you are trying to say here, but I'm fairly certain that it isn't "oh... oops... I misspoke with my example and it is cumulative time away from a job."
 
You’re right it is cumulative. However what I’m trying to convey, is that a military serviceman doesn’t have a five year clock and is no longer protected under USERRA.
A dude can start one set of orders, return, and go out on another, and be protected under USERRA. Does that make sense now?
 
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///AMG said:
So for the SJI folk, what are your thoughts on taking the proposed "temporary" 10 hr ALV reduction? Full pay 'til the last day, or cooperate to graduate? I'd imagine different seniority demographics have differing opinions.....
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I have not seen this proposal anywhere other than people thinking out loud on FB, but speaking as a UNA, I think I'd be against it. The math simply doesn't make sense.

Lets say the average pay for the 14000 pilots is $200/hr (nice even numbers to work with). 10 hours x $200/hr x 14000 pilots = $28 million per month in savings (or 10 x 250 x 14000 = $35m, for arguments sake). The company's cash burn is about $30 million per day. So even with rock solid snapback language in a LOA it just wouldn't have a significant impact for the company.
 
amichael said:
I have not seen this proposal anywhere other than people thinking out loud on FB, but speaking as a UNA, I think I'd be against it. The math simply doesn't make sense.

Lets say the average pay for the 14000 pilots is $200/hr (nice even numbers to work with). 10 hours x $200/hr x 14000 pilots = $28 million per month in savings (or 10 x 250 x 14000 = $35m, for arguments sake). The company's cash burn is about $30 million per day. So even with rock solid snapback language in a LOA it just wouldn't have a significant impact for the company.
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“They’re going to furlough/reduce ALV/park/bring back/cancel/re-bid/ X!”

”Who said? I haven’t heard anything and I’m sure it would have been brought up at (function)”

”FB/APC”

NOT a reliable source.
 
Derg said:
“They’re going to furlough/reduce ALV/park/bring back/cancel/re-bid/ X!”

”Who said? I haven’t heard anything and I’m sure it would have been brought up at (function)”

”FB/APC”

NOT a reliable source.
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I really want to unfollow those groups but every once in a blue moon an actual nugget of good information emerges and keeps me on board.
 
Nark said:
You’re right it is cumulative. However what I’m trying to convey, is that a military serviceman doesn’t have a five year clock and is no longer protected under USERRA.
A dude can start one set of orders, return, and go out on another, and be protected under USERRA. Does that make sense now?
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Totally makes sense that way.

And I'd say that USERRA (and ADEA) are the two federal statues that companies most often manage to ignore, or apply incorrectly.
 
Fair enough fellas. My comment wasn't based on APC (I'm not a member/don't use it) nor was it employee FB (I'm not an employee), but have heard this from friends who work there. Perhaps they saw it on one of those places, and apparently it has been a topic of discussion at work in at least a few cockpits, somewhere in the sky.
 
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