Furlough Estimates

jtrain609 said:
Using some rough math (everyone who took the early out makes around $285,000 a year, everyone getting furloughed makes $150,000 a year), Delta just cut almost a billion dollars a year of payroll costs, and now wants MORE?
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They want their pay cuts (ALV reduction) in exchange for not furloughing.
 
I still don't consider a reduction in guarantee to be a concession. Unless you're on reserve, you are paid when you turn a wheel. Lots of people are being paid right now to stay home and NOT turn a wheel.

That leaves us with two choices.

1. They can get rid of the number people for whom there is no wheel to turn or,

2. You can spread the work out among the entirety of the seniority list - yes, dropping below contractual guarantee temporarily

Once there are more wheels to turn the line values increase naturally until crossing the CBA threshold, after which the CBA is restored.

I guess having been through this a time or two I am of the mindset that we can act as a union and protect one another when times are bad, so that we can act as a union and stand with one another when times are good.


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roundout said:
Well, Frontier's leave LOA is a turd, not even a polished one at that.

35/hr month. I suspect the only takers will be junior captains who don't want to lose their fourth stripe.

Edit: not that I wouldn't be grateful to stay home and collect $7500/mo with benefits, as compared to the tens of millions who've lost their jobs globally.
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yeah disappointing to say the least but my prediction is that more than expected will take it after they learn they will be displaced. 50 hour COLA's would have been an easy 50% of the company participation. Cola 35...maybe 10-15%... and again only to retain CA and not be displaced.

remember we deal with an investment company and not an airline...and this is retribution from LOA 67
 
ZapBrannigan said:
I still don't consider a reduction in guarantee to be a concession. Unless you're on reserve, you are paid when you turn a wheel. Lots of people are being paid right now to stay home and NOT turn a wheel.

That leaves us with two choices.

1. They can get rid of the number people for whom there is no wheel to turn or,

2. You can spread the work out among the entirety of the seniority list - yes, dropping below contractual guarantee temporarily

Once there are more wheels to turn the line values increase naturally until crossing the CBA threshold, after which the CBA is restored.

I guess having been through this a time or two I am of the mindset that we can act as a union and protect one another when times are bad, so that we can act as a union and stand with one another when times are good.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I completely agree. I think we will see some sort of deal in the next couple weeks. I know a lot of guys are for an ALV reduction IF it is permanent and across all fleets. The initial company offer was supposedly only for widebody fleets or for any fleets they deemed appropriate. Company and union meeting tomorrow.
 
ZapBrannigan said:
I still don't consider a reduction in guarantee to be a concession. Unless you're on reserve, you are paid when you turn a wheel. Lots of people are being paid right now to stay home and NOT turn a wheel.

That leaves us with two choices.

1. They can get rid of the number people for whom there is no wheel to turn or,

2. You can spread the work out among the entirety of the seniority list - yes, dropping below contractual guarantee temporarily

Once there are more wheels to turn the line values increase naturally until crossing the CBA threshold, after which the CBA is restored.

I guess having been through this a time or two I am of the mindset that we can act as a union and protect one another when times are bad, so that we can act as a union and stand with one another when times are good.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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As a JR dude I agree. And besides, as things increase I'm sure the open time mongers will pad that total to a 120 plus month. So even if they were at say 75TFP LG, I highly doubt anyone here would actually only fly that much unless they wanted too. Reserves would still give their trips away and people will still straight for a 2.6 2 day...

But I agree with what you said.
 
CFIT99 said:
yeah disappointing to say the least but my prediction is that more than expected will take it after they learn they will be displaced. 50 hour COLA's would have been an easy 50% of the company participation. Cola 35...maybe 10-15%... and again only to retain CA and not be displaced.

remember we deal with an investment company and not an airline...and this is retribution from LOA 67
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I think I'm gonna take the 3 month and I've already talked to a friend this morning whose taking the 6. I was disappointed it wasn't 50 but its a nice thing Frontier is paying for "furloughed" pilots benefits. I imagine its unprecedented. I don't understand why everyone is so pissed about the offer though. If you want to make 45 grand to not do anything for six months then do it. If you think that's a slap in the face then don't take it.

My only trepidation is that if cares 2 is passed then all this goes out the window and what I understand is going to be ANOTHER company wide rebid?
 
L-16B said:
1600 for AA. Exactly as Parker said months ago. Anyone at United that thinks they won’t furlough is delusional at this point. The big 3 will all be similar.
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1600 straight furloughs, and another 527 who would’ve been furloughed, instead get the “Zero Time Line.”
 
upup89 said:
I think I'm gonna take the 3 month and I've already talked to a friend this morning whose taking the 6. I was disappointed it wasn't 50 but its a nice thing Frontier is paying for "furloughed" pilots benefits. There might have not been any furloughed pilots if they offered 50 hr COLA's I imagine its unprecedented. It probably is...not sure of the precedent is a good thing.I don't understand why everyone is so pissed about the offer though. If you want to make 45 grand to not do anything for six months then do it. if they had offered "industry standard" or close, then people wouldn't be frustrated.If you think that's a slap in the face then don't take it. That's the problem, most can't take it, and the F504 can't even take it to help mitigate Furloughs. If I was the bottom ~300 I would be planning on a furlough because the offer isn't enough.

I understand the MEC was between a rock and a hard place so no fault of there own....Management knew what the had and played it.

My only trepidation is that if cares 2 is passed then all this goes out the window and what I understand is going to be ANOTHER company wide rebid? Ill agree that this would change everything but as of now it's a pipe dream.
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upup89 said:
I don't understand why everyone is so pissed about the offer though. If you want to make 45 grand to not do anything for six months then do it. If you think that's a slap in the face then don't take it.
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I'm not pissed, just disappointed. And a little puzzled. If they really wanted to reduce payroll, offer a more generous COLA and more people would take it. You would think with more people at 50, payroll would be reduced. I bet at 50 they'd get half the airline. I don't see many takers at 35.

I'm leaning towards taking it simply because the difference between CA@35 and FO@guarantee take home, when including crashpad, meals on the road, etc., is only about $750 and that doesn't even factor in childcare. I live like I still make $80/hr so the 35 covers the bills for sure.

My only trepidation is that if cares 2 is passed then all this goes out the window and what I understand is going to be ANOTHER company wide rebid?
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Ugh
 
L-16B said:
That’s way better than I thought it was gonna be. The next displacement bid is gonna be ugly.
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I mean the most it could’ve been was 2500 people getting paid zero, it’s 2127 now. 373 less doesn’t seem “way better,” though I’d certainly be happy if I were them.
 
roundout said:
I'm not pissed, just disappointed. And a little puzzled. If they really wanted to reduce payroll, offer a more generous COLA and more people would take it. You would think with more people at 50, payroll would be reduced. I bet at 50 they'd get half the airline. I don't see many takers at 35.

I'm leaning towards taking it simply because the difference between CA@35 and FO@guarantee take home, when including crashpad, meals on the road, etc., is only about $750 and that doesn't even factor in childcare. I live like I still make $80/hr so the 35 covers the bills for sure.



Ugh
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It sounds like you and I feel the same then. I’d take 50 for as long as the company wanted me to, 35 I could cover my expenses as long as something doesn’t pop up that’s unforeseen. The only thing that kind of sucks is guys taking 35 make all the sacrifices and there will be people crediting 100 hours every month still. I just wish the pain was spread a tad more evenly, although throughout this I haven’t had to deal with the stress of being in the WARN area so perhaps it is.
 
upup89 said:
It sounds like you and I feel the same then. I’d take 50 for as long as the company wanted me to, 35 I could cover my expenses as long as something doesn’t pop up that’s unforeseen. The only thing that kind of sucks is guys taking 35 make all the sacrifices and there will be people crediting 100 hours every month still. I just wish the pain was spread a tad more evenly, although throughout this I haven’t had to deal with the stress of being in the WARN area so perhaps it is.
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Guarantee there will be "those guys" packing their schedules because technically b nobody is on furlough. Eff that. I understand "those guys" would fall, generally, in the demographic of having already sacrificed about lot for this company, that's a valid argument I suppose, but it isn't a good defense of crediting 100/mo @$250 when some people are at 35@$212 and some are at 0@$56.
 
roundout said:
Guarantee there will be "those guys" packing their schedules because technically b nobody is on furlough. Eff that. I understand "those guys" would fall, generally, in the demographic of having already sacrificed about lot for this company, that's a valid argument I suppose, but it isn't a good defense of crediting 100/mo @$250 when some people are at 35@$212 and some are at 0@$56.
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I’d also be curious to see some of the data that they were working with. I can’t help but think 50 hours across the board and the company doesn’t cover healthcare costs would save more money AND keep everyone on. But numbers don’t lie. They are going to need approximately 50 percent participation to save all 504. It’s going to be poor form when Spirit has no furloughs and F9 has a couple hundred.

At the end of the day it’s not personal it’s business and I can only deal with the offer I have on the table. No sense in dwelling on what everyone else got.
 
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