Furlough Estimates

Seggy said:
We cut more T's with the tax cut bill of 2017, but you aren't complaining about that. Stop being hypocritical.
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Two wrongs don’t make a right.
Yakob said:
With how steep this downturn is, it's probably a necessary evil to stave off an even worse Depression. Chances are most people on this website will be unemployed soon without more stimulus, with how hard the airlines are being hit. You could probably make a case that we'd rack up even more national debt in the long run without a generous stimulus package, from reduced tax revenues caused by an even deeper Depression.

Besides, people who haven't even been born yet are already on the hook for the trillions added to the National Debt by the Trump-Ryan-McConnell tax "reform" from 2017, but no one cares about that.
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Agreed. But a lot of this is self inflicted. Far too many businesses are STILL shut off whereas they should be open with distancing and masks. Eg, movie theaters with people sitting further apart with masks, restaurants with tables separating them more than 6 feet, museums, zoos, anything where you can wear a mask and stay 6 ft apart.

The economy can’t stay like this for years.
 
SteveC said:
Of course it can, unless you don’t believe in the basic premises of capitalism.

Might require some “adjustments” in pricing/supply/demand/“must-have-itis”, but the system will churn along just fine!
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How many bailouts is that gonna take? Our shutdowns started March and we had a couple trillion bailout back then and now a new couple trillion plan coming soon as the stalemate ends. Then there are the many restaurants and other small businesses that aren't going to come back. The economy cannot stay like this where it takes $2-3 trillion bailout every 4-5 months.
 
SteveC said:
None.

Bailouts are not even remotely capitalistic.

Which side are you on?
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Accept mother nature and its beotchness? How about we open everything up and go back to life being like it was before March? No bailouts needed. Those who die, die. "It is what it is." You ok with that?
 
L-16B said:
I wouldn’t call that out of seniority furlough. It’s just like the last time AA furloughed, with the stand in stead furloughs. I don’t understand the logic behind people saying the furloughs are out of seniority - the senior guy has the option to check the box and control their fate. No junior person will not be furloughed and a senior person furloughed unless the senior person desires a furlough.
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Chalk that one up to me. Another thing AA Does differently.
 
L-16B said:
I wouldn’t call that out of seniority furlough. It’s just like the last time AA furloughed, with the stand in stead furloughs. I don’t understand the logic behind people saying the furloughs are out of seniority - the senior guy has the option to check the box and control their fate. No junior person will not be furloughed and a senior person furloughed unless the senior person desires a furlough.
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While technology correct, let’s say they only offer NY as an option for the conditional bids when it gets down to your seniority. Someone in California may put in all the options that are in the western half of the country but decide that commuting to the East coast isn’t worth it so they get furloughed. A junior guy who lives on the east coast decides to only put in for jobs on the eastern side of the country. Since NY was the only base still available as a conditional bid, the junior guy gets to keep his job while the senior guy gets furloughed. You could say that the senior guy had a choice to bid NY and keep his job but that is one hell of a position to be put into.
 
subpilot said:
While technology correct, let’s say they only offer NY as an option for the conditional bids when it gets down to your seniority. Someone in California may put in all the options that are in the western half of the country but decide that commuting to the East coast isn’t worth it so they get furloughed. A junior guy who lives on the east coast decides to only put in for jobs on the eastern side of the country. Since NY was the only base still available as a conditional bid, the junior guy gets to keep his job while the senior guy gets furloughed. You could say that the senior guy had a choice to bid NY and keep his job but that is one hell of a position to be put into.
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I get what you’re saying but isn’t that just like a displacement bid? Always gonna flow downhill to the junior base.
 
subpilot said:
While technology correct, let’s say they only offer NY as an option for the conditional bids when it gets down to your seniority. Someone in California may put in all the options that are in the western half of the country but decide that commuting to the East coast isn’t worth it so they get furloughed. A junior guy who lives on the east coast decides to only put in for jobs on the eastern side of the country. Since NY was the only base still available as a conditional bid, the junior guy gets to keep his job while the senior guy gets furloughed. You could say that the senior guy had a choice to bid NY and keep his job but that is one hell of a position to be put into.
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In that scenario, he did have a job - it was in NY. And he said no. Not sure I buy this as an example of an out of seniority furlough.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
In that scenario, he did have a job - it was in NY. And he said no. Not sure I buy this as an example of an out of seniority furlough.
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What kind of job would that be to have? Zero pay to start out with every month. Having to commute across the country only for trips that are open while 100’s of pilots would be falling over themselves for those same trips.
At some point you have to place a value for the job and consider the options you have outside said employment.
It is not the same as being displaced to where you would be commuting across the country for a guaranteed salary. These offers are for zero pay and it is up to you / your ability to snag any open time in order to make any money. Why do you think they consider these equal 1:1 to a furlough?
 
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subpilot said:
What kind of job would that be to have? Zero pay to start out with every month. Having to commute across the country only for trips that are open while 100’s of pilots would be falling over themselves for those same trips.
At some point you have to place a value for the job and consider the options you have outside said employment.
It is not the same as being displaced to where you would be commuting across the country for a guaranteed salary. These offers are for zero pay and it is up to you / your ability to snag any open time in order to make any money. Why do you think they consider these equal 1:1 to a furlough?
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So no employment tax paid by employer for those on zero pay?

Still expensive if employer paying taxes on Zero time employees.
 
L-16B said:
I wouldn’t call that out of seniority furlough. It’s just like the last time AA furloughed, with the stand in stead furloughs. I don’t understand the logic behind people saying the furloughs are out of seniority - the senior guy has the option to check the box and control their fate. No junior person will not be furloughed and a senior person furloughed unless the senior person desires a furlough.
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That works if the senior guy can pin down where the cutoff for furloughs is and the company doesn't keep the total furloughs the same even though junior people took the other options. If those two things don't happen then a senior guy who thinks he is above the furlough line might get surprised.
 
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