First wave of layoffs for Lynx Aviation today

[Hootie]

sucks for the Lynx guys and its awesome for the Republic guys?

I dunno, does this make the Republic pilots pseudo-scabs when they fly these lines?

Serious? Lynx has been around for what, like almost double digits in months? Most pilots who go to a regional turboprop startup are already unemployed to begin with. So they got a break from unemployment for a year...some dough and a new type, cool.

 

[jtrain609]

if you assume that he worked at lynx, and he's saying it's an interview, how did you get to assuming it's an integration?

Really? Where did you get that fact? They are not on their list at all, the SLI between, RAH (teamsters), MidEx (Alpa), Frontier (FAPA), and Lynx (UTU), are underway. The next and hopefully final meetings are the end of may, and the arbitrator has 60 days to come up with a SLI solution. Talk about a cluster.

Seniority List Integration.

Or were you referring to CRJDriver?

 

[Q4Fast]

Pilots get angry when things change. Things have changed. Pilots are now angry because of it. I don't know if it's necessary.

I hear you, and I intend not to start any war or fight. But the facts have proven the Bryan Bedford, the RAH CEO is shutting down Lynx because it is a personal itch inside. Back in April 2008 when Frontier filed for Chap. 11, Frontier ditched RAH's regional service. There were many reasons behind this, but one of the big ones was the F9 was paying so much money to RAH for nearly nothing. RAH was departing outstations with half full planes due to weight restrictions, and among other money loosing things, F9 ditched them. This resulted in BB having to park (and take a huge hit) several aircraft, making him loose money. I, and several other people (basically all of Lynx) believe he is shutting down Lynx because of what took place in 2008. Lynx started flying, the money made went strait into F9's pocket, and basically Lynx aided the survival of F9, and ultimately was around to be parked.

I understand what you are saying, nobody likes change.
But to park one of the most economical, best mountain performing air-carrier aircraft is absurd. BB has a plan, if it succeeds, I will be very surprised. I wish no ill on anyone over at RAH, but I am worried he is going to ruin the remainder of MidEx and all of Frontier.

 

[Q4Fast]

Serious? Lynx has been around for what, like almost double digits in months? Most pilots who go to a regional turboprop startup are already unemployed to begin with. So they got a break from unemployment for a year...some dough and a new type, cool.

Since September 2006.

Most pilots who went to Lynx, in fact every single one I know when they were hired were NOT UNEMPLOYED. The pilots at Lynx have a large vast of experience, almost all of it is from the mentality of flying an airplane, not the Shiny Jet Syndrome. People quit their jobs to come to Lynx from all companies and aspects of the flying industry, with promises to be the next Horizon. They had the plan and it was all setup, and until Republic came in and basically said propellers suck, it was going to grow and be a great place.

Pretty "cool" huh Hootie?

 

[jtrain609]

I hear you, and I intend not to start any war or fight. But the facts have proven the Bryan Bedford, the RAH CEO is shutting down Lynx because it is a personal itch inside.

I think that's been "proven" to angry pilots, but not anybody else. Bedford, as much as we all hate him, has a fiduciary responsibility to make money for his company, and if he was on a personal mission to destroy all turboprops when they could make money, he'd be ousted. It's arguments like this that don't help pilots, they hurt us, because it makes it look like we can't think our way out of a wet paper bag. I mean don't get me wrong, not happy about what's going on at Republic and Lynx? I understand! But attacks like this won't go anywhere.

Back in April 2008 when Frontier filed for Chap. 11, Frontier ditched RAH's regional service. There were many reasons behind this, but one of the big ones was the F9 was paying so much money to RAH for nearly nothing. RAH was departing outstations with half full planes due to weight restrictions, and among other money loosing things, F9 ditched them. This resulted in BB having to park (and take a huge hit) several aircraft, making him loose money. I, and several other people (basically all of Lynx) believe he is shutting down Lynx because of what took place in 2008. Lynx started flying, the money made went strait into F9's pocket, and basically Lynx aided the survival of F9, and ultimately was around to be parked.

Again, I don't believe this to be the case. Nobody is successful in business with the attitude you're proportion Bedford has, and Bedford has made GOBS of money.

I understand what you are saying, nobody likes change.
But to park one of the most economical, best mountain performing air-carrier aircraft is absurd. BB has a plan, if it succeeds, I will be very surprised. I wish no ill on anyone over at RAH, but I am worried he is going to ruin the remainder of MidEx and all of Frontier.

Could it be that Bedford is pulling out of these markets because he doesn't think they're making enough money?

Here's an example; I'm on furlough from ExpressJet right now. I commuted from Salt Lake City to Newark. Know how many flights there were to Newark? One, and CAL got rid of it. Why would they do that? There are what? 11 ski resorts within 45 minutes of SLC? HOW COULD CAL NOT LOVE THIS MARKET!? There are three flights from Houston to Salt Lake City. THREE! THREE!?!?!?!?! THAT'S IT!? IT MAKES NO SENSE!

But it does make sense, because if they could make money on it, they'd put more flights into the market.

 

[jtrain609]

Since September 2006.

Most pilots who went to Lynx, in fact every single one I know when they were hired were NOT UNEMPLOYED. The pilots at Lynx have a large vast of experience, almost all of it is from the mentality of flying an airplane, not the Shiny Jet Syndrome. People quit their jobs to come to Lynx from all companies and aspects of the flying industry, with promises to be the next Horizon. They had the plan and it was all setup, and until Republic came in and basically said propellers suck, it was going to grow and be a great place.

Pretty "cool" huh Hootie?

Lynx, like any other startup company, had its risks. The risks did not pan out, so guys are on the street.

Trust me man, I know about being angry because you're on the street. When I went to XJT, we had two bases within a one hour commute of where I was living and we were hiring 80 a month. Delta was a sure thing, branded didn't look like it was in bad shape, I was gonna live the easy life!

Instead I commuted to reserve in Newark, never getting a line, never making it to LAX or ONT. It was a bad shake, but it is what it is.

If I had gone to Lynx I would have at least been employed that entire time, and I'd be furloughed for a period of months, not years like it will be now.

Again, not to downplay how you feel or your concerns, but sometimes things fall apart.

 

[Q4Fast]

I think that's been "proven" to angry pilots, but not anybody else. Bedford, as much as we all hate him, has a fiduciary responsibility to make money for his company, and if he was on a personal mission to destroy all turboprops when they could make money, he'd be ousted. It's arguments like this that don't help pilots, they hurt us, because it makes it look like we can't think our way out of a wet paper bag. I mean don't get me wrong, not happy about what's going on at Republic and Lynx? I understand! But attacks like this won't go anywhere.



Again, I don't believe this to be the case. Nobody is successful in business with the attitude you're proportion Bedford has, and Bedford has made GOBS of money.



Could it be that Bedford is pulling out of these markets because he doesn't think they're making enough money?

Here's an example; I'm on furlough from ExpressJet right now. I commuted from Salt Lake City to Newark. Know how many flights there were to Newark? One, and CAL got rid of it. Why would they do that? There are what? 11 ski resorts within 45 minutes of SLC? HOW COULD CAL NOT LOVE THIS MARKET!? There are three flights from Houston to Salt Lake City. THREE! THREE!?!?!?!?! THAT'S IT!? IT MAKES NO SENSE!

But it does make sense, because if they could make money on it, they'd put more flights into the market.

Sorry bud, I am just getting facts out, that is all. BB is a sneaky man. He should be ousted but the problem is that the Kool-Aid over there is so tasty, that everyone plays into his hand. He isn't pulling out of any markets, he is replacing the routes with an EJet. An EJet that is going to be weight restricted when its warmer then 80 degrees in Denver.


So, I have a question for you jtrain. When BB sets up a new airline, flying either Airbuses or E190s as a code share, removing domestic flights from the major airlines, are you going to say he is doing that as a good business man making money?

 

[Hootie]

Since September 2006.

Most pilots who went to Lynx, in fact every single one I know when they were hired were NOT UNEMPLOYED. The pilots at Lynx have a large vast of experience, almost all of it is from the mentality of flying an airplane, not the Shiny Jet Syndrome. People quit their jobs to come to Lynx from all companies and aspects of the flying industry, with promises to be the next Horizon. They had the plan and it was all setup, and until Republic came in and basically said propellers suck, it was going to grow and be a great place.

Pretty "cool" huh Hootie?

Well I am biased just like you. All the people I know who went to Lynx had "nothing to lose" because they were not able to gain employment at a more established company. Anybody who quit their current job obviously knew they were going to a regional turboprop startup in a high failure rate industry to replace contract services that had just been prematurely ended. If they thought they were going to Pan Am in the 1970's they probably shouldn't be flying airplanes.

 

[Q4Fast]

Lynx, like any other startup company, had its risks. The risks did not pan out, so guys are on the street.

Trust me man, I know about being angry because you're on the street. When I went to XJT, we had two bases within a one hour commute of where I was living and we were hiring 80 a month. Delta was a sure thing, branded didn't look like it was in bad shape, I was gonna live the easy life!

Instead I commuted to reserve in Newark, never getting a line, never making it to LAX or ONT. It was a bad shake, but it is what it is.

If I had gone to Lynx I would have at least been employed that entire time, and I'd be furloughed for a period of months, not years like it will be now.

Again, not to downplay how you feel or your concerns, but sometimes things fall apart.

I hear ya, hopefully with all of the XJT recalls, you get your job back.

This industry is absolutely jacked, and I believe it when they say that pilots are their own worst enemies.

 

[Q4Fast]

Well I am biased just like you. All the people I know who went to Lynx had "nothing to lose" because they were not able to gain employment at a more established company. Anybody who quit their current job obviously knew they were going to a regional turboprop startup in a high failure rate industry to replace contract services that had just been prematurely ended. If they thought they were going to Pan Am in the 1970's they probably shouldn't be flying airplanes.

It is not the fact that they were "thought they were going to Pan Am in the 1970's" its the fact that these pilots weren't just randoms getting any job they could find. These guys and gals knew what they wanted, a solid aircraft which originally was setup to fly mountain routes. People wanting to join a company where there was a challenge, people wanting to actually turn the autopilot off and rip into the Roaring Fork Valley.

But the fact that they went to Lynx because they couldn't work "at a more established company" is false. The original cadre that started Lynx would highly disagree with you, as do I.

 

[jtrain609]

Sorry bud, I am just getting facts out, that is all. BB is a sneaky man. He should be ousted but the problem is that the Kool-Aid over there is so tasty, that everyone plays into his hand. He isn't pulling out of any markets, he is replacing the routes with an EJet. An EJet that is going to be weight restricted when its warmer then 80 degrees in Denver.


So, I have a question for you jtrain. When BB sets up a new airline, flying either Airbuses or E190s as a code share, removing domestic flights from the major airlines, are you going to say he is doing that as a good business man making money?

First, consider that we're on the same team.

And I believe part of being on that team is understanding the strategy of our opponent. So with that, I believe, and I've been saying this for a little while now, that it's inevitable that all mainline domestic flying will be provided by regional lift in the next 5-10 years.

Now we can look at that, stomp our feet and say, "It's not fair! It's not fair!" Or, we could get ahead of that eight ball, prepare contracts to be mainline level contracts, and play managements game.

I don't think it's likely that we'll do this, I think it's much more likely that will continue to say, "But, this isn't fair! They shouldn't do this!" Doing so has gotten us nothing in the past, and it will get us nothing in the future.

We have choices to make here. Now we can succeed and finally get in front of the train that management is driving, or we can continue to be mired in the past. We all know what we've done, and I hope it's not a view to our future, or it's a very, very depressing future.

 

[Hootie]

It is not the fact that they were "thought they were going to Pan Am in the 1970's" its the fact that these pilots weren't just randoms getting any job they could find. These guys and gals knew what they wanted, a solid aircraft which originally was setup to fly mountain routes. People wanting to join a company where there was a challenge, people wanting to actually turn the autopilot off and rip into the Roaring Fork Valley.

But the fact that they went to Lynx because they couldn't work "at a more established company" is false. The original cadre that started Lynx would highly disagree with you, as do I.

Congratulations! You win!!

Tell your pals to apply at amf or ainet, lots of no autopilot "ripping".

 

[Q4Fast]

Congratulations! You win!!

Tell your pals to apply at amf or ainet, lots of no autopilot "ripping".

Cool thanks, glad I got some facts out instead of some random saying that the people at Lynx got the job because thats all they could get.

Thanks for the suggestion about the "ripping," I bet if all of the Lynx guys went to AMF or Airnet, you would say the reason they went there was because, "thats all they could get!"

 

[wheelsup]

Congratulations! You win!!

Tell your pals to apply at amf or ainet, lots of no autopilot "ripping".

FWIW a few very senior AWAC pilots went over to Lynx to start the program up. They took a risk however. But to say Lynx was full of people who couldn't get jobs elsewhere is false.

 

[Q4Fast]

FWIW a few very senior AWAC pilots went over to Lynx to start the program up. They took a risk however. But to say Lynx was full of people who couldn't get jobs elsewhere is false.

Thank you, all of the ex AWAC guys have been awesome to fly with. Very knowledgeable. Without them, Lynx would have had a different experience learning the ropes of Aspen and flying in the mountains.

 

[Bumblebee]

AWAC?

 

[Q4Fast]

AWAC?

Air Wisconsin.

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

There is no A in Wisconsin.

 

[Bumblebee]

thx...
sorry about the end of a good place to work...
I will say that I did ride on Mokulele Airlines and the product was very nice...

 

[wheelsup]

There is no A in Wisconsin.

Yes but there is in "Air Wisconsin".

Worst name for an airline ever though.