First wave of layoffs for Lynx Aviation today

[Q4Fast]

Ok, got it. You are of the opinion of, "give me midwests flying, give me frontiers flying and planes, staple the pilots, and when the sli is complete forget where I came from and let's all get along."

The sad thing is, that this is the motto of the IBT. If RAH and the IBT actually cared about the other groups, why the hell aren't they fighting to straiten all of the bs that RAH's management is throwing out into the industry? There has been zero communication from the IBT in regards to the people furloughed and what they are doing to make things better.

When the time comes.... vote FAPA!

 

[jtrain609]

Why SHOULD IBT represent the other pilots? How many dollars in dues have they collected from the other pilots?

None.

Each airlines union will do their job for THEIR pilot group.

 

[Vegaspilot99]

Why SHOULD IBT represent the other pilots? How many dollars in dues have they collected from the other pilots?

None.

Each airlines union will do their job for THEIR pilot group.

They don't need to represent other pilots, but some kind of statement saying they support Midwest and/or Lynx and are working to get everyone back as soon as possible would go a long way towards garnering some goodwill. Instead the IBT has put out nothing but silence. FAPA and Midwest ALPA both sent the UTU letters supporting our pilots when the shut down/furlough was announced...nothing from the IBT or RAH. If anything, the vibe we all get is they were happy to pick up the flying and we all should be lucky to have a job or a recall when all is said and done.

 

[Gonzo]

They don't need to represent other pilots, but some kind of statement saying they support Midwest and/or Lynx and are working to get everyone back as soon as possible would go a long way towards garnering some goodwill. Instead the IBT has put out nothing but silence. FAPA and Midwest ALPA both sent the UTU letters supporting our pilots when the shut down/furlough was announced...nothing from the IBT or RAH. If anything, the vibe we all get is they were happy to pick up the flying and we all should be lucky to have a job or a recall when all is said and done.

You do know the IBT doesn't tell the RAH pilots anything so why would they tell you anything?

 

[Bandit_Driver]

The charity is in giving those good jobs, Midwest and Frontier, to the rah guys who never expected to fly more than an rj.

I know how the process works. I'm still hoping frontier gets fenced off.

Their definatley should be fences or at a minimum a 5000 TT minium to fly the bus.

I dont think thats the case at all. Is the 190 an RJ? BB has been working towards his own airline ever since he got to Chautauqua. Gets fenced off? I dont think anyone is proposing a mass switching of seats and airplanes no matter how the seniority integration goes, its not even possible. F9 is back in growth mode and more Airbuses are coming later this year, growth thatll have to be filled by someone in the new RAH umbrella.

Yes the ERJ-190 is call a regional jet. IMO it should be flown mainline pilots as it can compete with DC-9 size aircraft easily. If the Bus doesn't get fenced or a TT minimum put on it their will be a mass switching of seats for those not seatlocked, regardless of pay. Just look at all the people that went to SkyBus. There was a lot of seat switching going on as soon as the E170's arrived origionally too. The Saab drivers were all downgraded and got a less than fair integration from the arbitrator as he ruled going from a Saab to E170 would be a winfall award. The precidence is there IMO. Going from CRJ/ERJ to an AirBus would be a winfall aware.

If the unions were truely interested in helping pilots this wouldn't be going to arbitration. The problem is one pilot group wants to screw the other.

How soon people forget history.

 

[Polar742]

This thread is really depressing to read, but I must comment on a couple things.

First, it seems like there is much emotion from people posting, yet the posts lack in substance and information in integration and arbitration proceedings.

There are separate entities merging. Each union has it's interest in affording their pilot group the best representation they can. This one is interesting, because usually you see two similar airlines merging (Delta/NW) or a juggernaut buy a small fish (AA/Reno). Rarely do you see a thriving smaller airline buy one that operates larger equipment.

I'm pretty disappointed by the pointed attacks that are presented from baseless facts.

Their definatley should be fences or at a minimum a 5000 TT minium to fly the bus.

I agree with the fences, but the 5000 TT? Why? You think the Airbus is more difficult to fly? It's that sort of egoism that got the industry so fractured in the first place. Smaller plane, bigger plane. Both operated under 121, so who cares. That's what a single seniority list is for. There will, no doubt, be fences and there will be no massive shuffle as you propose below.

There was a lot of seat switching going on as soon as the E170's arrived origionally too.

This is true. I was one of the first. I flew the E170 on the CHQ certificate, which was well prior to the S5 certificate being folded into RAH. It was a 15% pay raise for the same job I was doing on the E135.

The Saab drivers were all downgraded and got a less than fair integration from the arbitrator as he ruled going from a Saab to E170 would be a winfall award. The precidence is there IMO. Going from CRJ/ERJ to an AirBus would be a winfall aware.

You may feel that it was a "less than fair" award, and quite frankly I was surprised about the outcome. However, you should read the entire award and the case that was presented to staple the CHQ pilots under the S5 pilots.

At any rate, the S5 captains were downgraded, but everyone was pay protected. The seat shuffle was only when vacancies were presented. As the award was given, the S5 pilots were the very first to upgrade with vacancies. So in reality, they went from SF3 CA to E170 FO at SF3 CA rates to E145 or E170 CAs.

If the unions were truely interested in helping pilots this wouldn't be going to arbitration. The problem is one pilot group wants to screw the other.

They are interested in helping THEIR group, as they have a responsibility to do that. When you can't agree, you arbitrate. Rules of the game.

I wouldn't be surprised if RAH buys us for a Cargo Division.

How soon people forget history.

True, and remember it selectively as well.

 

[Bandit_Driver]

I agree with the fences, but the 5000 TT? Why? You think the Airbus is more difficult to fly? It's that sort of egoism that got the industry so fractured in the first place. Smaller plane, bigger plane. Both operated under 121, so who cares. That's what a single seniority list is for. There will, no doubt, be fences and there will be no massive shuffle as you propose below.

While the Bus may technically easy to fly I feel there needs to be a certain level of overall experience and judgement up front. Spirit has experiment with low-time pilots on the bus from from the piltos I know there is has not been fun for the captains.

This is true. I was one of the first. I flew the E170 on the CHQ certificate, which was well prior to the S5 certificate being folded into RAH. It was a 15% pay raise for the same job I was doing on the E135.

And you didn't see anything wrong with that. IBT signed a back door LOA to allow that wasn't approved by the MEC or the S5 pilot group. If you recall the SLI was going a more amicably until CHQ started use their pilots to fly aircraft on the Shuttle Certificate. Which was prohibited by the S5 contract.

You may feel that it was a "less than fair" award, and quite frankly I was surprised about the outcome. However, you should read the entire award and the case that was presented to staple the CHQ pilots under the S5 pilots.

I'll have to go back and reread but then again this got nasty once CHQ pilots started flying on S5's certificate.

At any rate, the S5 captains were downgraded, but everyone was pay protected. The seat shuffle was only when vacancies were presented. As the award was given, the S5 pilots were the very first to upgrade with vacancies. So in reality, they went from SF3 CA to E170 FO at SF3 CA rates to E145 or E170 CAs.

This is not entirely true. S5 had FO's that went back to first year pay. i also went back in pay. The Capt's got somewhat of better deal than the FO's did.

They are interested in helping THEIR group, as they have a responsibility to do that. When you can't agree, you arbitrate. Rules of the game.

I wouldn't be surprised if RAH buys us for a Cargo Division.

The merger is one case how no one worked together and how IBT is a joke of union in my opinion.

DON'T GIVE BB ANY IDEAS ABOUT CARGO....

Why do you think so many pilot left during or right after training on the E170?

 

[jtrain609]

What's the difference between a Boeing 737, EMB-145, Airbus A320 and an EMB-170/175/190/195?

The Boeing is probably the most complex out of any of those aircraft to fly, and otherwise they fly on the same routes, in the same airspace, with the same training and just different numbers of people behind the cockpit.

Nothing more. The longer we continue to delude ourselves into thinking that there is a difference between any of these aircraft, the worse off we'll be.

 

[Bandit_Driver]

What's the difference between a Boeing 737, EMB-145, Airbus A320 and an EMB-170/175/190/195?

The Boeing is probably the most complex out of any of those aircraft to fly, and otherwise they fly on the same routes, in the same airspace, with the same training and just different numbers of people behind the cockpit.

Nothing more. The longer we continue to delude ourselves into thinking that there is a difference between any of these aircraft, the worse off we'll be.

Going to have to disagree with you on this and debate this with you over some beverages at the next meet n greet.

 

[ASpilot2be]

What's the difference between a Boeing 737, EMB-145, Airbus A320 and an EMB-170/175/190/195?

The differences:

1. I fit in the 737 and A320 bellies.
2. The Airbus and Boeing carry twice the number of bags than even the EMB-190.

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

I want to apologize to Kingairer, in my defense I did get food poisoned on Wednesday afternoon and it was just starting to kick in and making me belligerent.