First officer training program?

Treblesum81 said:
.... I've even repeatedly asked for a third option that is not instructing and not PFT,..

What did you do instead? So far, everyone who's said that they didn't instruct AND didn't pay for time has omitted that most important detail of what to do instead of either...

I would say though that 2 hours a day is still faster than anything I've been able to find as of yet that isn't instructing.

...so you can't really tell me that I HAVE to instruct to make myself a viable candidate for employment.

...there are plenty of well trained and qualified pilots out there who have never taught a day in their lives..

a third option, yet even those who say they've done it differently haven't offered up that third option... but I refuse to believe that there is only a single route through those dues and that anyone who tries a different route isn't worth the plastic their license is printed on...
Click to expand...


As I said in the post RIGHT BEFORE THIS ONE:

There are so many aerial survey/mapping companies out there right now where you can build 500-700 hours a year easy. That's how I got my first thousand hours and I never got my CFI ticket. Try that.
 
DE727UPS said:
There was never any doubt in my mind that paying for a job would help the individuals career. But even more so, it's bad practice for the profession and for the careers of the rest. It also put minimally qualified F/O's into a seat that deserves better.

Not everyone should, or needs to, be an airline pilot. If you're looking for shortcuts and can't do the career without it them, then I'd say go look for something else. Don't be an airline pilot. It's a demanding job that deserves a well qualified and well trained individual. Sometimes getting the quals can be....inconvenient. That doesn't mean we should change the quals or the standards.
Click to expand...


So do the hiring practices of most regional airlines the past couple of decades.
 
But, based on you emphasis that you'd be a bad instructor, let me tell you right now that you'd be a terrible airline pilot. Any respectable airline wants pilots who want to be captains. Any respectable airline captain has to be a mentor to all of his FOs.

You don't have to be an instructor now, but you will someday if you ever hope to be an airline captain. And if you don't want to be a captain, then you'll probably fail in the airline world.

Just my opinion, of course.
 
For the OP.... What's your big hard on for the 777? I fly for one of the few majors in the US that still flies the 747-400 and I could be in the single digits bidding right seat in it, if I wanted. I have NO desire whatsoever to fly that thing. It goes too far, for too long and is away from home longer than I want to be gone for. At my airline, we have a single payscale and the 747 is domiciled in Alaska, yet we still have lots of egomaniacs who just have to fly that thing, who deal with an arduous commute to work just so they can tell their buddies who fly "lesser" aircraft, that they fly the 747-400.

Besides, by the time you get to somewhere that has a 777, it will be an outdated POS. What new a/c will you have a hard on for then?

P.S. I never was a CFI, so you don't need a CFI to fly the "heavies". :biggrin:
 
Third option...

Try Susiair in Indonesia. They hire foreign pilots to fly in the bush, starting out on the right seat in the Caravan until you get enough experience to be trusted to fly in the left seat. Fly there for awhile until you can move up to the Porter. I have a friend who got an interview there with only 200 hours total time.

You could take a look at bush flying in Africa although I'm not well versed on the process, but my understanding is that you won't get a chance unless you fly down there in person. Check out Botswana/Maun.
 
Cal Goat said:
But, based on you emphasis that you'd be a bad instructor, let me tell you right now that you'd be a terrible airline pilot. Any respectable airline wants pilots who want to be captains. Any respectable airline captain has to be a mentor to all of his FOs.

You don't have to be an instructor now, but you will someday if you ever hope to be an airline captain. And if you don't want to be a captain, then you'll probably fail in the airline world.

Just my opinion, of course.
Click to expand...

At the major level, that's just not true. At the regional level, now I could see how a Captain would have to provide (either willingly or not) some "basic" flying instruction to F/O's who lack such skills.
 
A-300F4-622R said:
At the major level, that's just not true. At the regional level, now I could see how a Captain would have to provide (either willingly or not) some "basic" flying instruction to F/O's who lack such skills.
Click to expand...

Not teaching "basic instruction" to a major/legacy newhire, by any means, but tricks and tips for the airplane that aren't taught in the schoolhouse. There's a LOT that can be learned from a guy who has spent 10 years on one airframe.
 
MQAAord said:
Not teaching "basic instruction" to a major/legacy newhire, by any means, but tricks and tips for the airplane that aren't taught in the schoolhouse. There's a LOT that can be learned from a guy who has spent 10 years on one airframe.
Click to expand...

You are correct. However, unless you are talking about OE, they are not really giving "instruction".
 
Still interested in how you feel this industry is so special and different from others in such that you would think of paying for a manager job at Denny's or a foreman job at the steel mill or a director job at Morgan Stanley so you can "achieve your goals quicker".
 
Greg,

I keep getting sucked back into this discussion even though it drives me nuts. It's like a train wreck that I can't stop looking at.
Let me break this down for you because I don't think you're really listening to what people are trying to tell you.
No one is trying to tear you down personally. No one is judging you for not wanting to instruct. We are just trying to make to aware your options of which the are many. You already know that you are limiting your options by avoiding instruction, so let's not dwell on that anymore. You mentioned though in a previous post that your goal is to captain a 777. How exactly do you plan on attaining such a position without being an instructor? I don't mean being a CFI, but being able to teach, mentor and be patient with yor FOs. As a captain that is what you will do. You will be responsible for teaching and mentoring those coming up through the ranks, so you're going to have to develop these skills along the way. That's just food for thought. You don't need to be a CFI now, but teaching skills are part of this job.
Next, there have been plenty of suggestions for low time jobs. Dropping sky divers, banner towing, survey, pipeline patrol and some VFR 135 jobs can be great ways to build good time and get paid to do it. Unfortunately most of these jobs require at least 500 hours to get into. The delemma that everyone here has faced is how to bridge the gap between fesh commercial and 500 hrs. As is appearance in here many people choose to get hat additional time by instructing. Your suggestion was to get that time through an FOTP. There has already been the suggestion to buy a cheap twin and fly it on your own, but hat may not be feasible. So maybe just rent a plane after work and build up a few more hours. The time immediately following getting your commercial is the hardest part because you are now qualified to get paid to fly but no ne will pay you to fly.
The only thing you're getting beat up on is the pay for training. Is there anything wrong with sitting in the right seat of a turboprop? No. It can be a great learning experience. There is something wrong with offering to pay for something that you should be getting paid to do. I sat in the right seat of a metro for a while and I made crap! I got paid $80/ day, but I didn't pay a dime for the time. I was an employee and was treated as such. They also wouldn't hire me until I had 800 hrs because they didn't want to hire someone who wasn't upgradeable to the left seat in a reasonably short amount of time.
So here's the short of it. No one wants to see you reach your goals more than the group of us here. That's what we're here for. We are providing you with information based on our experience in the industry and it's up to you what you do with that info.
PM me. I'd be happy to talk with you over the phone about options. Sometimes the info you read on here just doesn't come across as it was meant to be.
 
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