Fedex 1376
- Thread starter Wardogg
- Start date
This is a perfect example of why US pilots need to be more proficient with ICAO phraseology. Look how long it took for the Japanese ATC to finally figure out that they were an emergency and needed an expedited return after a cargo fire indication. Even though they repeatedly stated that they are "declaring an emergency" the controllers don't grasp the extent of it until several minutes in. A simple MAYDAY would have gotten the point across immediately
ctab5060X
Well-Known Member
Even though English is the accepted language of aviation worldwide, you have to remember that for many countries English is very much a second (or third, or fourth) language. There are probably places where the only English they speak or understand (even on a basic level) is ICAO phraseology.
T/O w/FSII
Well-Known Member
“Declaring an emergency” isn’t taught or used by ATC in most of the world outside of the US and select European countries.
K?
scooter2525
Very well Member
Our FOM says specifically; if distress MAYDAY, if urgency PAN-PAN.
Nothing about “I declare an emergency!”
ASpilot2be
Qbicle seat warmer
He is right. You go to some of these Chinese airports and you say anything not in the icao phraseology and they won't respond to you because they don't know what to say.
roundout
VNAV monitor
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Anywhere outside the United States, declare like this:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkJGrcOE5S0
Pilot Fighter
Well-Known Member
I would also punctuate my correct ICAO phraseology with a prompt u-turn. In these difficult times I will bravely make a stand. I’m anti-fire.
scooter2525
Very well Member
Thought of the same gif!
///AMG
Well-Known Member
You joke, but I honestly thought an FIR would be about the only place that would actually know what "PAN PAN PAN" meant
Also, I agree, MAYDAY is like Hollywood, way over the top, stuff. I guess if you were in a scenario like AS 261 or UPS 6, it might have more relevance.
edit: interesting discussion about foreign ATC. Most of the overseas controllers I ever interacted with were either US/NATO, or trained by them, probably with one looking over their shoulder.
ChasenSFO
hen teaser
Interesting, as I've heard it 3 times in person. All 3 were go-arounds at SFO with English pilots (BA x2 and Cathay) after some holding, and all 3 were given a close-in circuit back around to 28L/R. The phrase "fuel critical" was used. One of the times, I asked the BA pilot about it when he got to the ramp and he told me that when they can no longer safely make their alternate, they declare it for priority handling. It didn't seem like a big deal any of those times, and both BA captains asked for the FAA tower number to thank them for the speedy circuit back to land.
As for declaring an emergency, I can think of plenty of accidents where not declaring an emergency or delaying the decision to declare was a contributing factor (and often the last hole in the swiss cheese). What is the worst case if you declare but didn't need to? Annoying ATC and having to explain it to the CP along with paperwork? I know which one I'd go with lol.
ChasenSFO
hen teaser
This is 1000% accurate.
ASpilot2be
Qbicle seat warmer
We were in Shenzen recently and asked how long the delay was going to be because we were getting tight on fuel. They tried to give instructions back to the gate because they thought we needed more fuel.
SquatThrust
Well-Known Member
Sometimes it's best to stick with the 'what' you're asking for and leave out the 'why' you're asking for it.
ASpilot2be
Qbicle seat warmer
Very very true.
WacoFan
Bigly
You know what other European (and by that I mean "British") type phrase I find annoying? When they call afterburner "reheat". How stupid and soft is THAT? Like ZZ Top would ever come up with an album of kick ass Texas rock-n-roll and name it "Reheat". It sounds like warming up one of those brainmeat pies or whatever the eff those people eat. That's why America rules and was able to create the atom bomb and land a man on the moon. Because we're not soft and call it "reheat" or use the metric system.
I'm rewatching Turn on the streaming and that always gets my Brit hatred up. Carry on.
zmiller4
Well-Known Member
One of my TMAAT stories…we were flying from a small midwestern city to a very large midwestern city on a lake and the FO (me) AFCS crapped out, so no autopilot or flight director on my side. QRH says push button to change control to operating side, it worked. Destination was IMC, CA says “well go ahead and declare an emergency to cover our butts” and I was like “and land where?”.
He wanted to overfly 5 or 6 suitable airports to get to our original destination after declaring an emergency. It’s the only time I’ve used the term “I’m not comfortable with” [overflying suitable airports if we actually have an emergency, which I don’t think we do].
CA was super pissed at me but I’m convinced I saved us from a long conversation with the feds.
Wardogg
Meat Popsicle
You want to know what else fires me up about the Brits? Who put those yahoos in charge of thermal units? I bet if we came up with ATU's, they would be way better. And probably come with four wheel drive and mud tires. Freedom! 'Merica!
Land as soon as possible? Emergency
Land as soon as practical? Non-emergency
Kingairer
'Tiger Team' Member
Thats a good one there, and I agree with your assessment on the matter. In the Fedex CHA situation, I think a failure of 1 of 3 hydraulic systems with major flight components effected/degredation, would be a great time to declare a pan pan/emergency.