FAA passes another records act

Boris Badenov said:
Right you'd quit and they'd put some poop in your disciplinary file and now you wouldn't get to be a bigshot Major Airline Pilot. That's the point he's making.
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but don’t the dirt bag operators already try to do that? I’m pretty sure guys that process PRIA stuff have told me they get all kinds of weird extraneous crap from Bubba Gump’s Shrimp Fishing Expeditions and Air Charters which they just laugh at and throw away.
 
Boris Badenov said:
Right you'd quit and they'd put some poop in your disciplinary file and now you wouldn't get to be a bigshot Major Airline Pilot. That's the point he's making.
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If it’s that bad, don’t work there in the first place? Want to be a 121 major airline pilot? Skip the BS places and go straight to a 121 regional. Problem solved.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
People who work at places like that deserve no sympathy from me. Just because they made bad decisions doesn’t mean we should see another 3591 down the road.
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Completely disagree with this frame of mind. When the industry gets tough, people need money and need jobs. And even when things are good, a young CFI who thinks they are reaching the next "milestone" in their career won't realize what they have gotten themselves into until it's too late.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
If it’s that bad, don’t work there in the first place? Want to be a 121 major airline pilot? Skip the BS places and go straight to a 121 regional. Problem solved.
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How would that have worked out the last 18 months? I have a few friends who came into the industry expecting rapid career progression and instead a global pandemic turned that idea upside down. Couldn't afford to live off of CFI pay for longer than they had planned, and took a corporate job they thought was the next best thing. To the young and unsuspecting pilot, there's no way to tell the different between a reputable operation and a shady one. Like I said, by the time they figure that out, it's too late.

Kind of a separate issue but instead of placing the blame on pilots who choose to work at those shops, maybe apply the same energy that was put into this new records program to increase oversight of shady operations like that.
 
flybywp said:
Completely disagree with this frame of mind. When the industry gets tough, people need money and need jobs. And even when things are good, a young CFI who thinks they are reaching the next "milestone" in their career won't realize what they have gotten themselves into until it's too late.
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Thats why places like JC exist. Networking is super important. The only way companies like that will change is when people stop working there.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
Thats why places like JC exist. Networking is super important. The only way companies like that will change is when people stop working there.
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I agree with you there. And I've always stressed to any new pilot to do their research, but unfortunately many don't. I don't agree that is how change will come though. I've never worked at one of those "shady" places so it's unfamiliar to me. But judging by the past of the industry, they will always find someone willing to work there and changes won't come until the feds say so.
 
Well I feel like this is where another area of law, labor law, comes into play. At this point it seems like any company that’s willing to put something about discipline into a federal database if their documentation isn’t 100% ironclad is asking for a big ol lawsuit.
 
flybywp said:
Completely disagree with this frame of mind. When the industry gets tough, people need money and need jobs. And even when things are good, a young CFI who thinks they are reaching the next "milestone" in their career won't realize what they have gotten themselves into until it's too late.
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The other similar factor is that some crappy places didn't start out crappy. All it takes is someone new in a position of power being a turd to completely ruin a good place to work and turn it into a crappy one at the drop of a hat.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
Thats why places like JC exist. Networking is super important. The only way companies like that will change is when people stop working there.
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Very altruistic POV. I worked at one of those places. I stayed 6 months. I had people on this board telling me to go work there. Stelios was a f***head of a boss. When his wife showed me some handwritten notes she had on how I was to be paid, and I showed her what flights I worked and she said she wasn't paying me for those, I quit right on the spot. That was 10+ years ago. They're still in business, and still have the same reputation.

The FAA should handle things aviation related. Period. You could have a disagreement with an a**hole chief pilot and get fired at the best of companies on an overnight. Explain to me why that's the FAA's business.

Say you're on an overnight, out in the city, and get caught up in something you had no intention of being involved in, and get fired, how is that the FAA's business.

Yes, PRIA leaves a gaping hole. This goes a long way towards fixing that. But it takes it too far. The FAA needs to stay in it's lane. It's not there for employment records. It's there for aviation records.
 
mshunter said:
Very altruistic POV. I worked at one of those places. I stayed 6 months. I had people on this board telling me to go work there. Stelios was a f***head of a boss. When his wife showed me some handwritten notes she had on how I was to be paid, and I showed her what flights I worked and she said she wasn't paying me for those, I quit right on the spot. That was 10+ years ago. They're still in business, and still have the same reputation.

The FAA should handle things aviation related. Period. You could have a disagreement with an a**hole chief pilot and get fired at the best of companies on an overnight. Explain to me why that's the FAA's business.

Say you're on an overnight, out in the city, and get caught up in something you had no intention of being involved in, and get fired, how is that the FAA's business.

Yes, PRIA leaves a gaping hole. This goes a long way towards fixing that. But it takes it too far. The FAA needs to stay in it's lane. It's not there for employment records. It's there for aviation records.
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By chance was this a charter operator out of VNY? One that shared the same name as a car manufacturer?
 
Roger Roger said:
but don’t the dirt bag operators already try to do that? I’m pretty sure guys that process PRIA stuff have told me they get all kinds of weird extraneous crap from Bubba Gump’s Shrimp Fishing Expeditions and Air Charters which they just laugh at and throw away.
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*nods*

Oh, and the immunity? It’s in the damn statute.

This isn’t really new, it just makes it harder to Conrad your way around.
 
mshunter said:
You were one of the ones who told me I should go work there.
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Really? Wow. Sorry for giving you a bum steer. If I can make up for it somehow, let me know.

Looking back, talking to the people at the time that worked there it seemed ok at the time. Only a bit shady, but steady work if one wanted to stay local in SoCal. I was annoyed with him because he had promised part time charter work if I spent my 'furloughed/retraining unemployment-cali dollars' on an ATP in one of his C-500's and then he never called me once. I also found out that higher power would have typed me in the 73 for the same amount... which would have been more useful on my CV. I needed the ATP to get my next gig, so I was lucky and I landed on my feet, but I'm still annoyed about how the whole thing went down.

I hate economic downturns.
 
Roger Roger said:
Well I feel like this is where another area of law, labor law, comes into play. At this point it seems like any company that’s willing to put something about discipline into a federal database if their documentation isn’t 100% ironclad is asking for a big ol lawsuit.
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Paging @jtrain609 to discuss the practical aspects of proving damages/harm with something like this, the cost of pursuing a lawsuit, and how hard it is to get a monetary award and then somehow collect it.


<----- not a lawyer, but my opinion is that a lawsuit or threat of one is not as a powerful a tool as one might think.
 
ClearedForOption said:
<----- not a lawyer, but my opinion is that a lawsuit or threat of one is not as a powerful a tool as one might think.
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Also not a lawyer, but that's my impression as well. Add to this the fact that the sort of person who has signed up for a 134.5 probably doesn't have a lot of cash to hand to pay a lawyer (or, say, buy a job like our paragon of virtue).
 
flybywp said:
How would that have worked out the last 18 months? I have a few friends who came into the industry expecting rapid career progression and instead a global pandemic turned that idea upside down. Couldn't afford to live off of CFI pay for longer than they had planned, and took a corporate job they thought was the next best thing. To the young and unsuspecting pilot, there's no way to tell the different between a reputable operation and a shady one. Like I said, by the time they figure that out, it's too late.

Kind of a separate issue but instead of placing the blame on pilots who choose to work at those shops, maybe apply the same energy that was put into this new records program to increase oversight of shady operations like that.
Click to expand...

This is a rare occurrence. Normally when airlines go tits up, so does corporate. Eg, 2008. Ford, Kodak, several large Corp departments ceased ops. This is a rarity where it was a virus so people hated airline travel, and those who could afford it went private. So when airlines went down, corporate went up.

What’s the car manufacturer name that sounds similar to a corp department?
 
mshunter said:
Very altruistic POV. I worked at one of those places. I stayed 6 months. I had people on this board telling me to go work there. Stelios was a f***head of a boss. When his wife showed me some handwritten notes she had on how I was to be paid, and I showed her what flights I worked and she said she wasn't paying me for those, I quit right on the spot. That was 10+ years ago. They're still in business, and still have the same reputation.

The FAA should handle things aviation related. Period. You could have a disagreement with an a**hole chief pilot and get fired at the best of companies on an overnight. Explain to me why that's the FAA's business.

Say you're on an overnight, out in the city, and get caught up in something you had no intention of being involved in, and get fired, how is that the FAA's business.

Yes, PRIA leaves a gaping hole. This goes a long way towards fixing that. But it takes it too far. The FAA needs to stay in it's lane. It's not there for employment records. It's there for aviation records.
Click to expand...

ATP requirement - “Of good moral character”


Call me crazy, but I think if you screw up on an overnight the airline should know. You’re on rest but you’re still only there because of work. Personal experience from what I’ve seen, EVERY single shenanigan/horror story involving an overnight, it was the usual suspects. Where you went “well no surprise there.”
 
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