FAA passes another records act

[mshunter]

Yeah, not cool how deep this one goes. I can see some disgruntled operators putting things in records that are damaging. I get it, records need to be improved. But honestly, some of the things required to report are what I would consider "none of your business" or open for really screwing someone over. It should only contain "This person was employed here from this date to this date". That's it...nothing more. Imagine that you are at some 134 1/2 outfit, and they're regularly asking you to violate rules. You quit. They get pissed, and put a bunch of negative remarks in there because they're pissed you refused to break the rules. I've quit those kinds of jobs. One of those places is named after an auto manufacturer.

IMO, this ain't good.

FAA Establishes Pilot Records Database - AVweb

The FAA has adopted a rule establishing an electronic Pilot Records Database and requiring air carriers and some other operators to report pilots’ employment history, training and qualifications to that database.

www.avweb.com

 

[bafanguy]

What's the difference between this new thing and PRIA info ? Just more stuff and details ? Does PRIA go away now ?

I tried looking at the PRD document but it's 232 pages of gibberish so I quickly gave up.

 

[thevideographer]

What's the difference between this new thing and PRIA info ? Just more stuff and details ? Does PRIA go away now ?

I tried looking at the PRD document but it's 232 pages of gibberish so I quickly gave up.

PRIA goes away. This replaces it with a giant database of all information pertaining to the airman, submitted by the FAA and previous employers. So a company can pull your file and see all your checkride failures/employment history/etc without relying on you to report the previous companies you worked for. i.e. this is what everyone assumed PRIA was in the first place.

 

[bafanguy]

thevideographer,

Thank you for the explanation. Not a particularly encouraging program.

 

[Roger Roger]

“pilot drug and alcohol records, employers’ final disciplinary action records, records concerning separation of employment and verification of pilots’ motor vehicle driving records.”
The only thing I can see any objection to is the disciplinary action records. The rest of it you’re already supposed to supply to an employer so the FAA having it makes no difference. A couple of people and a couple of companies proved that current system was full of holes, I don’t know what other result anyone expected.

 

[gliderboy]

Atlas Air Flight 3591

 

[Roger Roger]

Atlas Air Flight 3591

The crazy thing is, given all the red flags they ignored in his training, there would have been nothing stopping them from hiring him if they had known his record.

 

[dustoff17]

This new requirement doesn't seem out of line IF (note big "if") the submitting company is required to provide the pilot with a copy of the submission AND there is an appeal process BEFORE it becomes a part of the FFA file. Companies will use this as a opportunity to trash a pilot.

 

[mshunter]

“pilot drug and alcohol records, employers’ final disciplinary action records, records concerning separation of employment and verification of pilots’ motor vehicle driving records.”
The only thing I can see any objection to is the disciplinary action records. The rest of it you’re already supposed to supply to an employer so the FAA having it makes no difference. A couple of people and a couple of companies proved that current system was full of holes, I don’t know what other result anyone expected.

And that's exactly what I'm talking about. Disciplinary actions. There's a whole lot of shady 134.5 operators out there that will be vindictive. The rest of it is necessary.

It doesn't/shouldn't apply to me. I'm at a place where I'm most likely done with interviews, and I keep my nose clean. But there's one place, maybe two, where I've worked that I'd be worried because we didn't leave on good terms. One place I left because I was shorted, a lot, on two paychecks and the owner has a horrible reputation. That's why I left, and it wasn't nice, for either of us. CA labor board had to get involved and his last voicemail to me was "YOU'LL NEVER FLY ANOTHER AIRPLANE AGAIN!" This gives those kinds of operations a little more power to do just that.

 

[Screaming_Emu]

The crazy thing is, given all the red flags they ignored in his training, there would have been nothing stopping them from hiring him if they had known his record.

Yup. That fault was primarily on the FAA is ridiculous.

 

[Screaming_Emu]

And that's exactly what I'm talking about. Disciplinary actions. There's a whole lot of shady 134.5 operators out there that will be vindictive. The rest of it is necessary.

It doesn't/shouldn't apply to me. I'm at a place where I'm most likely done with interviews, and I keep my nose clean. But there's one place, maybe two, where I've worked that I'd be worried because we didn't leave on good terms. One place I left because I was shorted, a lot, on two paychecks and the owner has a horrible reputation. That's why I left, and it wasn't nice, for either of us. CA labor board had to get involved and his last voicemail to me was "YOU'LL NEVER FLY ANOTHER AIRPLANE AGAIN!" This gives those kinds of operations a little more power to do just that.

People who work at places like that deserve no sympathy from me. Just because they made bad decisions doesn’t mean we should see another 3591 down the road.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

People who work at places like that deserve no sympathy from me. Just because they made bad decisions doesn’t mean we should see another 3591 down the road.

Yep.

Moving on.

 

[denverpilot]

The real fun of all these databases is they won't secure them properly. Like every other agency, they'll be breached and it'll be on the Net.

 

[TWP]

People who work at places like that deserve no sympathy from me. Just because they made bad decisions doesn’t mean we should see another 3591 down the road.

Unfortunately, it’s easy to convince a burnt out cfi to jump to a less than reputable place.

 

[tlove482]

“pilot drug and alcohol records, employers’ final disciplinary action records, records concerning separation of employment and verification of pilots’ motor vehicle driving records.”
The only thing I can see any objection to is the disciplinary action records. The rest of it you’re already supposed to supply to an employer so the FAA having it makes no difference. A couple of people and a couple of companies proved that current system was full of holes, I don’t know what other result anyone expected.

And hopefully it will prevent us from having to fill out a pria form for each previous employer at your new job. It starts to get ridiculous when you've have more than 2-3 previous employers.

 

[ClearedForOption]

People who work at places like that deserve no sympathy from me. Just because they made bad decisions doesn’t mean we should see another 3591 down the road.

Yep.

Moving on.

I disagree. Vindictive behavior on the part of an employer, any employer, can have ramifications to a pilot's career. This system does need checks and balances to prevent it's misuse when it comes to how and what data is inputted and made both public and is transmitted to future employers.

As an industry, we do need to close the hole in the swiss cheese that might be the catalyst of another Colgan/Atlas, but while doing that we cannot create a system that can be abused to the determent of the individual. At least in the 121 world, with AQP and a Union Contract I'm hoping to see some controls.

In my own case, I've filled out my last app and suited up for my last interview. As long as my airline is around for the next 20 or so years, in whatever form, this is where I am staying. I don't want to see good pilots career's get hurt because people without integrity have figured out a loophole in a records recording system.

 

[mshunter]

People who work at places like that deserve no sympathy from me. Just because they made bad decisions doesn’t mean we should see another 3591 down the road.

You miss the point....completely.

Disciplinary actions unrelated to flying are between the previous employer and employee.

Edit: Most states have laws against that kind of information.

"Is the employee eligible for rehire" is all they're allowed to ask.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Yeah, not cool how deep this one goes. I can see some disgruntled operators putting things in records that are damaging. I get it, records need to be improved. But honestly, some of the things required to report are what I would consider "none of your business" or open for really screwing someone over. It should only contain "This person was employed here from this date to this date". That's it...nothing more. Imagine that you are at some 134 1/2 outfit, and they're regularly asking you to violate rules. You quit. They get pissed, and put a bunch of negative remarks in there because they're pissed you refused to break the rules. I've quit those kinds of jobs. One of those places is named after an auto manufacturer.

IMO, this ain't good.

FAA Establishes Pilot Records Database - AVweb

The FAA has adopted a rule establishing an electronic Pilot Records Database and requiring air carriers and some other operators to report pilots’ employment history, training and qualifications to that database.

www.avweb.com

Good. About time.

 

[denverpilot]

I don't want to see good pilots career's get hurt because people without integrity have figured out a loophole in a records recording system.

As a systems engineer for thirty years, I would not even call it a "loophole". Just a built in design failure.

Lazy work by people who don't care about their system's bad design choices. Convenience and deployment expediency over accuracy.

"It works 99% of the time and blows up destroying the user 1% of the time. Ship it!"

Completely normal and accepted computer system engineering behavior these days. All sorts of lame excuses for it, too.

Good luck finding a public data flow diagram or public third party audit of the system...

Of course even in the audited world, there's fun stuff like...

"Does your HR dept do X, please show documented policy and an example from a random sampling of hires..."

"We don't have an HR dept. Accounting has two people."

"Ok do they do X?"

"Hell if I know. Want to call her?"

Lol. Livin' the audited data security dream here... Been there done that, got the t-shirt. And these folks are exempt from public audits.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

You miss the point....completely.

Disciplinary actions unrelated to flying are between the previous employer and employee.

Edit: Most states have laws against that kind of information.

"Is the employee eligible for rehire" is all they're allowed to ask.

Never been disciplined. If I worked at a place where I felt they were unfairly disciplining me, I wouldn’t work there long.


Every airline should see discipline records, training failures, busts, etc. And unfortunately, as Colgan and Atlas showed, there are always those pilots who suck and hide their backgrounds. And then crash planes killing people.