F-15 Raytheon Award...

[Hacker15e]

Just recently flew with a hornet guy and he was explaining that exact thing, sounded like a blast.

The issue is that most fighter pilots 'grow up' training against like model aircraft. We develop perceptions about capabilities of adversaries based on those similar aircraft.

The Hornet performs just so differently at slow speeds from the Eagle that it is a shock to see it's nose rate in person for the first time.

 

[ClarkGriswold]

The issue is that most fighter pilots 'grow up' training against like model aircraft. We develop perceptions about capabilities of adversaries based on those similar aircraft.

The Hornet performs just so differently at slow speeds from the Eagle that it is a shock to see it's nose rate in person for the first time.

I specifically asked him about flying against F15s and he went on to tell me that and how they would always tell them to do it again. He did say they were flying against one guy who clearly flew against hornets before and knew all their tricks. Man I probably bugged the crap out of him but it was so cool to hear about it all. Wish I could have done it, one of the guys in the raytheon video is from my old flight school too, got to pick his brain a few times...

 

[Hacker15e]

Ie did say they were flying against one guy who clearly flew against hornets before and knew all their tricks.

...and this is the key to successful air-to-air combat: to know and understand your adversaries' capabilities, and execute tactics to nullify or counteract those strengths.

 

[rframe]

...and this is the key to successful air-to-air combat: to know and understand your adversaries' capabilities, and execute tactics to nullify or counteract those strengths.

I started reading the book "Boyd: The Fighter Pilot Who Changed the Art of War" last week, which talks a lot about this concept. Good book so far.

 

[///AMG]

I started reading the book "Boyd: The Fighter Pilot Who Changed the Art of War" last week, which talks a lot about this concept. Good book so far.

Not the Eagle, but a guy I fly with who has significant time in both the Hornet and the Viper, told me that he has never seen a Hornet beat a Viper being flown by a Hornet guy. I don't know if this speaks more to the capabilities of the Viper in comparison to the Hornet when it is set free from mainstream AF BFM dogma (which fails against a jet like the Hornet, which fights differently than most modern fighters around), or more to the value of knowing your adversary intimately, but I think it does speak to both in some way.

 

[SteveCostello]

Not the Eagle, but a guy I fly with who has significant time in both the Hornet and the Viper, told me that he has never seen a Hornet beat a Viper being flown by a Hornet guy. I don't know if this speaks more to the capabilities of the Viper in comparison to the Hornet when it is set free from mainstream AF BFM dogma (which fails against a jet like the Hornet, which fights differently than most modern fighters around), or more to the value of knowing your adversary intimately, but I think it does speak to both in some way.

Curious... is there a lot of opportunity for USAF pilots to spend time in USN/USMC aircraft and visa versa? I've seen several times on this board the mention of Hornet drivers in Vipers or Eagles, or Viper/Eagle fellas spending some time in the Hornet. How does that opportunity present itself?

 

[///AMG]

Curious... is there a lot of opportunity for USAF pilots to spend time in USN/USMC aircraft and visa versa? I've seen several times on this board the mention of Hornet drivers in Vipers or Eagles, or Viper/Eagle fellas spending some time in the Hornet. How does that opportunity present itself?

There are exchange tour opportunities (ones I know of are Hornet to C-Eagle or Viper and vice versa, sure there are others). That said, most of the folks I know who flew the Viper flew it while on staff at N-7 or N-5 at NSAWC.....so "Navy" F-16's....which I believe are entirely A's and B's now. I know of a couple people who have gone to the AF side for exchange to fly the Eagle, but that's about it. I wouldn't say it's real common, but it happens.

 

[ryan1234]

Saw some Vipers doing a Fan Break at NPA........ thought "Hmm...those can't be AF "

 

[Hacker15e]

I know of a couple people who have gone to the AF side for exchange to fly the Eagle, but that's about it. I wouldn't say it's real common, but it happens.

I know several guys who have done both -- USN Hornet and Harrier guys who have flown a tour in the Strike Eagle, and USAF guys (from several fighter communities) who have flown tours in the Harrier and Hornet.

As you say, not common, but happens with regularity.

 

[SteveCostello]

Well, you learn something new everyday. Had no idea that the USN had Vipers. Of course, the vast majority of my time was spent on the Ike, so I never really saw any shore-based flying.

 

[///AMG]

Well, you learn something new everyday. Had no idea that the USN had Vipers. Of course, the vast majority of my time was spent on the Ike, so I never really saw any shore-based flying.

Yeah, the USN/USMC side has flown some unusual stuff in the adversary role.....F-5E/F/N, F-16N/A/B, A-4E/TA-4J, Kfir, and the were also included in the Constant Peg program flying MIG-17, MIG-21 and MIG-23's though the MIG's were AF jets. I've also heard of a guy or two doing exchange tours in the past with the Germans flying early lot small motor MIG-29's, as well as various other foreign tours such as Tornado, BAE Harrier, Super Etendard, Rafale. So there is some room for cross-pollenation, though many of these kind of force a guy off the traditional career path by nature of fitreps and other factors.