Emirates vacation time?

[Rodger Wilco]

Hey anyone out there actually employed at Emirates? I am wondering do you get any vacation time? Like a ought time to come back to the U.S.? All I can find online is that you get a few days off here and there, but why about vacation?

 

[swisspilot]

Hey anyone out there actually employed at Emirates? I am wondering do you get any vacation time? Like a ought time to come back to the U.S.? All I can find online is that you get a few days off here and there, but why about vacation?

It really depends on the position, I remember reading that the average for FO is about a week off a month, and one straight month off a year.

 

[DE727UPS]

One week off a month for vacation? I'm guessing they are saying any days you don't work are considered vacation. Are you saying a Middle East airline is giving 12 weeks vacation a year? I only get five and I'm senior at a union shop. But if you consider any day I don't work a vacation, then I'm doing pretty will with six months vacation a year....

 

[typhoonpilot]

Emirates pilots get 42 days of vacation per year from their first year of employment. A decade ago one could take one block of 28 days per year. Now that maximum is 21 days, but even that is becoming increasingly rare. As Emirates tries to squeeze the pilots more and more, what is more likely is that a pilot only gets 30 of his vacation days awarded in the bid process. The other 12 get assigned in 4 days blocks randomly through the year and count as days off in the month so they still fly a full month work even with vacation!! Even in a month with 14 days of vacation on the 16 days that you work you fly 75% of a full schedule!!

The local managers think you are stealing from the company when you have time off. Really, that is the attitude. The retort from pilots is, "hey, when office workers have vacation to they have to come in and work both a day and a night shift to make up for the time they are taking vacation because that is what you are doing to the pilots?" Falls on deaf ears of course. That's why most Americans at EK are looking to leave now that the major U.S. carriers are hiring. A lot of the non-Americans are looking for better schedules at places like Korean, China Southern, Vietnam, etc.


Typhoonpilot

 

[Rodger Wilco]

It sounds like Emirates expects to "lease" their pilots much like an aircraft; if it isn't working it is broken type of mentality. Is that close to accurate?

I am guessing that the western mentality of work to live not live to work wouldn't go over very well out there?

I am attracted to emerates because I can do more for my career in 1 year out there than 10 years in the US. However I am a little hesitant because the work rules/QOL/company culture dont give me the impression that it is an enjoyable place to be.

 

[DE727UPS]

I have a friend that went there from Skywest maybe 15 years ago. He's an A380 Capt. Moved his family to Dubai. His facebooks posts make it seem like they are having a good time and feel safe. I don't see him complain about the job, but maybe he knows better. I once got turned down by two majors and thought the 3rd wasn't going to hire me. Had a class date at a regional. Had Emirates been around then, in their present form, I think they would have been a better move for me than the West Air Shorts job I was going to take. You could always give it a try and bail after a year if it's that bad.

 

[typhoonpilot]

You could always give it a try and bail after a year if it's that bad.

There is a 3 year bond so bailing after a year means you owe $24,000. So that's not necessarily a good option. A lot of new hire F.O.s have been bailing at or near the 3 year point.


TP

 

[DE727UPS]

I wonder how they make you pay if your not in Dubai anymore? just curious. UAE doesn't even have an extradition treaty with the US.

 

[swisspilot]

One week off a month for vacation? I'm guessing they are saying any days you don't work are considered vacation. Are you saying a Middle East airline is giving 12 weeks vacation a year? I only get five and I'm senior at a union shop. But if you consider any day I don't work a vacation, then I'm doing pretty will with six months vacation a year....

Anywhere outside the US you get a lot of vacation, in South America it is pretty common to get one month off straight a year and 2 days off every 6 (out of those six you maybe flew 4). When I flew in the South Pacific I had a roommate from Qantas, he would get a total of 3 months off a year.

I fly for a small airline in South America and get 28 days vacation (I can take them as I want with enough notice), and I can a lot extra unpaid, as long as there is a pilot to replace me.

 

[Rodger Wilco]

Anywhere outside the US you get a lot of vacation, in South America it is pretty common to get one month off straight a year and 2 days off every 6 (out of those six you maybe flew 4). When I flew in the South Pacific I had a roommate from Qantas, he would get a total of 3 months off a year.

I fly for a small airline in South America and get 28 days vacation (I can take them as I want with enough notice), and I can a lot extra unpaid, as long as there is a pilot to replace me.

This is correct? Really? @typhoonpilot you sound like you are in the know, can you confirm 12 consecutive weeks off a year at Emerates? That is amazing if it is true. With that amount of time off a guy could easily stay in contact with friends and family.

 

[Stone Cold]

This is correct? Really? @typhoonpilot you sound like you are in the know, can you confirm 12 consecutive weeks off a year at Emerates? That is amazing if it is true. With that amount of time off a guy could easily stay in contact with friends and family.

Read what @typhoonpilot wrote above. Post #4.

 

[Rodger Wilco]

Read what @typhoonpilot wrote above. Post #4.

Thanks. I'm an idiot. Thanks @typhoonpilot

 

[HVYMETALDRVR]

@typhoonpilot How does Emirates QOL compare to Qatar Airways and Etihad? I've been reading the other big international forum and it seems like Qatar is pretty rough, but there is not much info on Etihad. Lot of anger and whining there though, I trust these forums better.

I'm looking to get into some long haul international flying, I'm thinking one of the Middle Eastern carriers may be the way to go... I'm currently flying for an ULCC here in the US domestically, but I think I'd enjoy long haul better. I see Emirates is hiring right into the A380 (I don't have an AB type rating as it says in the job posting), is it also possible to get the 777, A340, or A330 right away? You mentioned they're tightening up on schedules, but wouldn't it still be possible to get 15 days off per month since your flying 10-12 hours at a time per flight per day? Is still a max of 100 hours flight time per month?

The other part I was wondering is if seniority and bidding works the same way as here in the US?

I have been to UAE before, I have friends there, and am definitely familiar with the cultural difference. Just trying to see if I'd like it, a flexible schedule and a friendly place to work (my current company is in contract negotiations) is equally as important to me as pay.

One last thing, I meet the minimums with FAA ATP 4000TT, 2000 Jet (some of which is over 50 tonnes), but 0 TPIC. Do you know if that's competitive, compared to the current applicants?

Thanks for your time!

 

[HVYMETALDRVR]

I wonder how they make you pay if your not in Dubai anymore? just curious. UAE doesn't even have an extradition treaty with the US.

Purely speculating, but could it go on your credit? Certain sleezy Metro operators here in the USA are notorious for this. Also, I'm sure you'd be restricted from traveling to the UAE in the future, something you may have to explain in future interviews...

 

[Papoo]

@HVYMETALDRVR
I can't comment much on Qatar, but I've a couple of friends at Emirates and Etihad. Such is the aviation cycle, it seems like Etihad is currently the better prospect. Far shorter command time (2-3 years), and I think the pay is slightly higher. The benefits are pretty similar, but I would prefer to live in Dubai than Abu Dhabi.

Emirates seems to be very short of crew and are losing plenty of guys heading home, so guys aren't able to get all of their leave each year, and the rosters sound nothing short of brutal.

With all that in mind, remember that a few years ago, the reverse was true.

I think with your 4000hrs and 2000 jet, you'll meet the Etihad minimums, but Emirates require you to have 2000 on jets >50t. I understand that they're still pretty hard on that, but the requirements do change.

You won't get A380 without a decent amount of Airbus time, so yes, you'll go straight on to the A330 or 777. Last time I looked, the 330 was the roughest fleet to be on, but with the carrot of the A380 after a little while. I'm not sure what the situation is now, however.

 

[typhoonpilot]

@typhoonpilot How does Emirates QOL compare to Qatar Airways and Etihad? I've been reading the other big international forum and it seems like Qatar is pretty rough, but there is not much info on Etihad. Lot of anger and whining there though, I trust these forums better.

I'm looking to get into some long haul international flying, I'm thinking one of the Middle Eastern carriers may be the way to go... I'm currently flying for an ULCC here in the US domestically, but I think I'd enjoy long haul better. I see Emirates is hiring right into the A380 (I don't have an AB type rating as it says in the job posting), is it also possible to get the 777, A340, or A330 right away? You mentioned they're tightening up on schedules, but wouldn't it still be possible to get 15 days off per month since your flying 10-12 hours at a time per flight per day? Is still a max of 100 hours flight time per month?

The other part I was wondering is if seniority and bidding works the same way as here in the US?

I have been to UAE before, I have friends there, and am definitely familiar with the cultural difference. Just trying to see if I'd like it, a flexible schedule and a friendly place to work (my current company is in contract negotiations) is equally as important to me as pay.

One last thing, I meet the minimums with FAA ATP 4000TT, 2000 Jet (some of which is over 50 tonnes), but 0 TPIC. Do you know if that's competitive, compared to the current applicants?

Thanks for your time!

Somehow I missed this post, sorry for the late response.

I might be over in that part of the world come summer so could certainly do some digging for the latest info.

Emirate used to be the best hands down. Best all around package, best QOL, best place to live, best crews to fly with, best training, best command upgrade path. As Papoo says though, that is changing. Qatar is still pretty bad, they'll basically hire anybody with a pulse though so that could be seen as a plus for some. Very few people last more than a few years there for a variety of reasons.

Etihad has been growing very aggressively. I believe they have hired close to 600 pilots in the last year. That would tend to alter the upgrade projections. Somebody hired 2-3 years ago will definitely be upgrading soon. Somebody hired at the end of the 600 in the last year will not necessarily achieve the same upgrade time. It's simple math really. Etihad has good crews to fly with; Abu Dhabi keeps getting better and better as a place to live; not so sure of schedule though. I know the A320 flying there can be pretty brutal at times. A lot of the night turn-around type flying to the sub-Continent on the A320. One might have to put a few years in on that fleet before getting onto a widebody with better flying and schedules or you could get lucky and get hired directly onto the B787 or B777.

Seniority bidding at Emirates is rather unique. Pilots are placed into one of five "bid groups". The groups rotate on a 5 monthly basis. So you get a top bid month once every 5 months. If you are senior in your bid group you definitely have chance at good trips. Doesn't always work real well though. They use a PBS system that is very good when left alone, but when tampered with by adding all sorts of restrictions it doesn't do so well. They are adopting a new system soon and it will probably make the bidding worse. Days off in a row are limited and there are rules for being back in base prior to ULR flights that make commuting close to impossible.

At Qatar the days off in a row restriction is also present. Generally no more than 3 days off in a row from what I hear. Not sure about Etihad.

Average sector time in the 11 years I was at Emirates was just over 5 hours. Mind you, I did a lot of local training flights so I might be unique. With ULR flying as a line pilot it could be substantially higher than that on average, but not 10 or 12. There are flights as short as a Doha turn that keep the average down.

On the A330 the average sector time is probably less than 4 hours now, even for line pilots.

The A380 has the best schedules, but as mentioned above it's generally not an entry level airplane.

Honestly though, I'd stay in the States now and shoot for the majors as a first priority.



TP

 

[HVYMETALDRVR]

Somehow I missed this post, sorry for the late response.

I might be over in that part of the world come summer so could certainly do some digging for the latest info.

Emirate used to be the best hands down. Best all around package, best QOL, best place to live, best crews to fly with, best training, best command upgrade path. As Papoo says though, that is changing. Qatar is still pretty bad, they'll basically hire anybody with a pulse though so that could be seen as a plus for some. Very few people last more than a few years there for a variety of reasons.

Etihad has been growing very aggressively. I believe they have hired close to 600 pilots in the last year. That would tend to alter the upgrade projections. Somebody hired 2-3 years ago will definitely be upgrading soon. Somebody hired at the end of the 600 in the last year will not necessarily achieve the same upgrade time. It's simple math really. Etihad has good crews to fly with; Abu Dhabi keeps getting better and better as a place to live; not so sure of schedule though. I know the A320 flying there can be pretty brutal at times. A lot of the night turn-around type flying to the sub-Continent on the A320. One might have to put a few years in on that fleet before getting onto a widebody with better flying and schedules or you could get lucky and get hired directly onto the B787 or B777.

Seniority bidding at Emirates is rather unique. Pilots are placed into one of five "bid groups". The groups rotate on a 5 monthly basis. So you get a top bid month once every 5 months. If you are senior in your bid group you definitely have chance at good trips. Doesn't always work real well though. They use a PBS system that is very good when left alone, but when tampered with by adding all sorts of restrictions it doesn't do so well. They are adopting a new system soon and it will probably make the bidding worse. Days off in a row are limited and there are rules for being back in base prior to ULR flights that make commuting close to impossible.

At Qatar the days off in a row restriction is also present. Generally no more than 3 days off in a row from what I hear. Not sure about Etihad.

Average sector time in the 11 years I was at Emirates was just over 5 hours. Mind you, I did a lot of local training flights so I might be unique. With ULR flying as a line pilot it could be substantially higher than that on average, but not 10 or 12. There are flights as short as a Doha turn that keep the average down.

On the A330 the average sector time is probably less than 4 hours now, even for line pilots.

The A380 has the best schedules, but as mentioned above it's generally not an entry level airplane.

Honestly though, I'd stay in the States now and shoot for the majors as a first priority.



TP

Thanks TP, I'm trying to get on with a Legacy here in the US. I've always wanted to live abroad, I'm not sure if the Middle East is 100% the best option, I'd prefer Asia but would do the sandbox for the right job. Unfortunately, it sounds like things are getting worse there, not better and QOL is equally as important to me as pay. I'd like to do the long haul stuff although I don't care if it's an A380 vs. 777 vs. A330, whichever has the best schedule. I've already ruled out QR for this reason.

Since Etihad discussions are banned on the other forums its hard to get info on them, but I'll give them a closer look. I'm not too worried about upgrade, if I'm happy where I work I'll wait for it, the FO pay over there is respectable. My friends over there actually live in Abu Dhabi, but since it's within driving distance from Dubai I wouldn't rule out EK for that reason.

I'm kind of burnt out with the 5 legs a day domestic stuff here, but if I had to do a few years with a Legacy to get to the longer stuff I'd do it. I may have the opportunity to get on the AB here later this year, but I don't think I'd want to get stuck on it over there as like you said the schedule sounds pretty terrible. As I posted in the other thread I'd take Atlas as well, and am working on that.

That's a lot for your time and input!

 

[HVYMETALDRVR]

@HVYMETALDRVR
I can't comment much on Qatar, but I've a couple of friends at Emirates and Etihad. Such is the aviation cycle, it seems like Etihad is currently the better prospect. Far shorter command time (2-3 years), and I think the pay is slightly higher. The benefits are pretty similar, but I would prefer to live in Dubai than Abu Dhabi.

Emirates seems to be very short of crew and are losing plenty of guys heading home, so guys aren't able to get all of their leave each year, and the rosters sound nothing short of brutal.

With all that in mind, remember that a few years ago, the reverse was true.

I think with your 4000hrs and 2000 jet, you'll meet the Etihad minimums, but Emirates require you to have 2000 on jets >50t. I understand that they're still pretty hard on that, but the requirements do change.

You won't get A380 without a decent amount of Airbus time, so yes, you'll go straight on to the A330 or 777. Last time I looked, the 330 was the roughest fleet to be on, but with the carrot of the A380 after a little while. I'm not sure what the situation is now, however.

Thanks for the heads up! Could you PM me more info about Etihad?

 

[Papoo]

To be honest, I don't have any more specific info on them, which isn't available online. Although, if you have a specific question, I can try my best to get it answered.

In short, it's a similar deal to Emirates. Different city (as mentioned, getting better, but still behind Dubai in my opinion), slightly different pay (I believe its currently higher at Etihad), but with a far, far quicker time to command. And, at least on the widebodies, better schedules and you'll get your whole annual leave, unlike Emirates, who are hurting for crew more than anyone. I'm not sure of the Etihad specifics, but at Emirates, you're rostered 92 hours, and now, I'm led to believe that bunk time for augmenting crew doesn't count towards AFTLs. Which is, frankly, incredible.

Use this info with the understanding, however, that a few years ago, you'd have been crazy to consider Etihad if you had an offer from Emirates. So, it seems they'll leapfrog each other again at some stage. Timing is critical, and for that reason, I'd be trying my hand with Etihad right now. Plus, your hours meet the EY minimums, but I don't believe they meet the (current) EK minimums.

 

[HVYMETALDRVR]

Thanks I haven't been on the Etihad site in awhile, I'll do my research.

I'm not sure how excited they'll be to see MD-80 SIC time but it least it meets the weight requirements for these airlines. Still don't have much time on it though...

Thanks for the heads up!