Dui not reported and then reported

[bobby_master]

Hallo everyone.

I do not know if I should open my own topic, for the moment I post here, if not relevant, I am sure the admin will move it.

In 2006 I had a DUI in europe. .85 and one month licence suspension. The are no records anymore, only tha papers I still hold from the event.

I never report it to the faa. I did not know I had to.

I took 3 medical after that: 2011 and 2013 where I did not disclose. Believe it or not I forgot I had the DUI.

In 2014 in my LAST MEDICAL, I did disclose it. After the doctor ask me for papers and so on I realized that I never disclose it before.

Now, Do you have any suggestions on how to proceed?

I am a european citizen, professional pilot with my easa license and use the faa license for the fun of it.

Thank you

 

[rockman2343@aol.com]

Right now all you can really do is sit and wait seeing as you just disclosed it. The FAA will have the option of suspending or revoking your certificate, or they may decide to do nothing considering you finally did come clean. If they do contact you, i would be very careful about saying I forgot I had a DUI. It's just not believable and doesn't make you look like you are taking responsibility for your failure to put it on the medical. Browse the internet, you'll find a couple of articles and posts in forums with people in a similar situation as you.

 

[MidlifeFlyer]

I suggest you take the opportunity now to consult an attorney to review the situation in detail. Generally speaking, reporting the action on the medical will initiate an inquiry by the FAA. I've had a client checked into who reported a 15 year old DUI and the FAA stated asking questions about it. Your best bet is to talk with an attorney in advance and begin putting together what you will need for an adequate response. Especially given the failure to report on earlier medical applications.

Your question is a good opportunity to point out that the definition of things that must be reported to the FAA under 61.15 are different than what must be reported in response to question 18v on the medical application. The medical application is much broader. For example:

• 61.15 asks for convictions of "Federal or State statutes relating to the operation of a motor vehicle while" intoxicated or impaired (my emphasis) which might not include convictions in another country
• 61.15 asks for reports of "cancellation, suspension, or revocation of a license to operate a motor vehicle" or a refusal to issue a license for reasons involving intoxication or impairment.

OTOH, 18v on the medical app does not have that limiting language and applies to many more court and administrative actions.

So, a conviction in Europe might not be reportable under 61.15 although it probably is reportable under 18v.

 

[PilotDefenseAttorney]

MidlifeFlyer is spot on. One other area of concern I would have is the extent to which the U.S. and Europe share such information. What effect will a revocation or suspension action against your U.S. certificate have on your EASA license? I don't know the answer (haven't had the issue come up before) - but, you might want to investigate.

 

[Mike Massimini]

Good advice from PilotDefense and Midlife ... but it's still "internet stuff" at this point. I don't know where you're located, but find an American attorney that specializes in FAA dealings. It's 2238 east coast time - you want to get on this at 0900 tomorrow, 9 October. I don't know any active lawyer types (all mine are retired) but there are plenty of people here who do - just post a location. Do it now.

 

[bobby_master]

I suggest you take the opportunity now to consult an attorney to review the situation in detail. Generally speaking, reporting the action on the medical will initiate an inquiry by the FAA. I've had a client checked into who reported a 15 year old DUI and the FAA stated asking questions about it. Your best bet is to talk with an attorney in advance and begin putting together what you will need for an adequate response. Especially given the failure to report on earlier medical applications.

Your question is a good opportunity to point out that the definition of things that must be reported to the FAA under 61.15 are different than what must be reported in response to question 18v on the medical application. The medical application is much broader. For example:

• 61.15 asks for convictions of "Federal or State statutes relating to the operation of a motor vehicle while" intoxicated or impaired (my emphasis) which might not include convictions in another country
• 61.15 asks for reports of "cancellation, suspension, or revocation of a license to operate a motor vehicle" or a refusal to issue a license for reasons involving intoxication or impairment.

OTOH, 18v on the medical app does not have that limiting language and applies to many more court and administrative actions.

So, a conviction in Europe might not be reportable under 61.15 although it probably is reportable under 18v.

Thank you all for your answers.

I contacted an Aviation Attorney, he did say that at this time there is nothing he could do to help. It is just wait and see in his opinion. Or I could hire him for a starting fee of 2000$ (!!!!) for "fixing pourposes"

I have also been in thouch with AOPA Legal Services, they were helpfull but, also, they said I should either wait and see or report directly to the FAA according to 61.15.

Just to clarify the detals of my DUI, in the European country were it happened, at the time(2006), was a road violation. No arrest, no incrimination. My license was suspended for a month and I had to pay a small fine. There are no records anymore about this event, apart from what I hold personally.
Nobody could find out about it, even if they were the pope.

I do believe that, given the fact that my driving license was suspended for alchol intoxication, according to 61.15 I need to report it. Please, correct me if I am wrong.

Regarding my EASA license, there arte no implication whatsover. I did not need to reported at the time, I changed 2 licenses since then, so there are a lot of layers inbetween.

My whole attitude towards this is to be totally honest, I always been, and I do not see any reasons not to be in this case. I did a mistake, I did not have a clou It needed to be reported on a 61.15 and I basically forgot about the violation when I filed my medical forms.
In EASAland, this violation as no implications whatsoever. At the time of the DUI I was not using the FAA certificate and so I was not concerned.

Thank you all for your support and sharing.

regards
bobby_master

 

[MidlifeFlyer]

Bobby,

I can't comment on a public forum to a non-client about a specific situation so can't say whether or not I think your Euro DUI was reportable under 61.15.

But I will suggest it is not a good idea to discuss the details of your situation in public. It's not a matter of honesty. It's about confidentiality, privacy and self-protection.

 

[wainscottbl]

Well you're screwed now. NSA passed this over to the FAA.

Seriously though all you can do is wait and in the meantime talk to a lawyer like you've been advised. Remember you did not forget, you just did not know. But a lawyer will tell you about the specifics of the splitting hair stuff of "knowing" and "forgetting". It can matter! And the NSA may not have passed this over to the NSA, but be careful posting stuff online about any possible crime or violation you committed. Saying so can at least suggest guilt though I am not saying it equals guilt. There is a reason you have a right to remain silent which is more often not something you do when they read you that right. If the FAA does come to you or whatever just say you'd like to talk to an attorney. Never say anything or let people like that try to play you into saying something, saying it is off the record or they need to know then. But you should have real counsel on the matter before you have to go before the FAA to renew again. Next time it would be harder to say you lack culpability so you want to make sure you are doing it just right as there will be a record or you not saying what you are saying now last time you did got your medical. There is a maxim that matters a lot: Actus non facit reum nisi mens sit rea. And ignorance or forgetting is not always excusable from what a lawyer friend tells me. Sometimes to the layman all this stuff seems splitting hairs. Which is why their is that lawyer asking all that money.

 

[A Life Aloft]

Well you're screwed now. NSA passed this over to the FAA.

Seriously though all you can do is wait and in the meantime talk to a lawyer like you've been advised. Remember you did not forget, you just did not know. But a lawyer will tell you about the specifics of the splitting hair stuff of "knowing" and "forgetting". It can matter! And the NSA may not have passed this over to the NSA, but be careful posting stuff online about any possible crime or violation you committed. Saying so can at least suggest guilt though I am not saying it equals guilt. There is a reason you have a right to remain silent which is more often not something you do when they read you that right. If the FAA does come to you or whatever just say you'd like to talk to an attorney. Never say anything or let people like that try to play you into saying something, saying it is off the record or they need to know then. But you should have real counsel on the matter before you have to go before the FAA to renew again. Next time it would be harder to say you lack culpability so you want to make sure you are doing it just right as there will be a record or you not saying what you are saying now last time you did got your medical. There is a maxim that matters a lot: Actus non facit reum nisi mens sit rea. And ignorance or forgetting is not always excusable from what a lawyer friend tells me. Sometimes to the layman all this stuff seems splitting hairs. Which is why their is that lawyer asking all that money.

Seriously, WTH are you talking about? Good grief.

 

[derg]

Well you're screwed now. NSA passed this over to the FAA.

Seriously though all you can do is wait and in the meantime talk to a lawyer like you've been advised. Remember you did not forget, you just did not know. But a lawyer will tell you about the specifics of the splitting hair stuff of "knowing" and "forgetting". It can matter! And the NSA may not have passed this over to the NSA, but be careful posting stuff online about any possible crime or violation you committed. Saying so can at least suggest guilt though I am not saying it equals guilt. There is a reason you have a right to remain silent which is more often not something you do when they read you that right. If the FAA does come to you or whatever just say you'd like to talk to an attorney. Never say anything or let people like that try to play you into saying something, saying it is off the record or they need to know then. But you should have real counsel on the matter before you have to go before the FAA to renew again. Next time it would be harder to say you lack culpability so you want to make sure you are doing it just right as there will be a record or you not saying what you are saying now last time you did got your medical. There is a maxim that matters a lot: Actus non facit reum nisi mens sit rea. And ignorance or forgetting is not always excusable from what a lawyer friend tells me. Sometimes to the layman all this stuff seems splitting hairs. Which is why their is that lawyer asking all that money.

This is roughly the equivalent of "hot steaming bowl of tripe" than I've ever seen on the website. We have two attorneys already commenting on the issue.

 

[wainscottbl]

This is roughly the equivalent of "hot steaming bowl of tripe" than I've ever seen on the website. We have two attorneys already commenting on the issue.

Perhaps, but when two wise men speak a fool must speak to humble them lest they become fools. And he who calls the fool a fool, Confucius say, is he a wise man? There is a in Byzantium what is called the holy fool. He goes about town saying sophistic things which are as the Apostle says "the Greeks call foolishness" so that only the truly wise appreciate them. Thus was the foolish Socrates the wisest man in the world according to the Oracle. Therefore bless you, Abba and have mercy on a fool. Let he who has wisdom understand.

 

[derg]

Perhaps, but when two wise men speak a fool must speak to humble them lest they become fools. And he who calls the fool a fool, Confucius say, is he a wise man? There is a in Byzantium what is called the holy fool. He goes about town saying sophistic things which are as the Apostle says "the Greeks call foolishness" so that only the truly wise appreciate them. Thus was the foolish Socrates the wisest man in the world according to the Oracle. Therefore bless you, Abba and have mercy on a fool. Let he who has wisdom understand.

I'm losing my patience, and I'm about the most patient webmaster on the aviation internet.

 

[A Life Aloft]

Perhaps, but when two wise men speak a fool must speak to humble them lest they become fools. And he who calls the fool a fool, Confucius say, is he a wise man? There is a in Byzantium what is called the holy fool. He goes about town saying sophistic things which are as the Apostle says "the Greeks call foolishness" so that only the truly wise appreciate them. Thus was the foolish Socrates the wisest man in the world according to the Oracle. Therefore bless you, Abba and have mercy on a fool. Let he who has wisdom understand.

There is no perhaps about it. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about in this matter and your post is just ridiculous. Quit while you're behind and let the actual and very well experienced Aviation Attorneys handle these issues. Mark Twain said "It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."

 

[gotWXdagain]

Perhaps, but when two wise men speak a fool must speak to humble them lest they become fools. And he who calls the fool a fool, Confucius say, is he a wise man? There is a in Byzantium what is called the holy fool. He goes about town saying sophistic things which are as the Apostle says "the Greeks call foolishness" so that only the truly wise appreciate them. Thus was the foolish Socrates the wisest man in the world according to the Oracle. Therefore bless you, Abba and have mercy on a fool. Let he who has wisdom understand.

I uhh... What?

 

[Cptnchia]

Well, you learn something new every day. Did not know we lived in Ancient Greece/Byzantium.

Pro tip: Equating oneself to Socrates is just asking the gods of karma to smite thee.

 

[wainscottbl]

I uhh... What?

Nevermind. Let he who has wisdom understanding is all I will say. The moderator has told me to shut up or face his wrath. So I will wisely do so and apologise for being an ass. If I may offer a diminishing factor I am an Aspie. So I don't always think the same way you do. My brain's a bit screwed up, or as I like to think a bit noble. Because though we Aspies have some problems, we have achieved great things in art and science. I mean I am a pretty skilled poet and writer and not bad at analyzing things either. I've had good teachers though. Socrates of course, Aristotle, Thomas Aquinas, my actual real life teachers and most of all my friends who have spoken many things to cool the fire of my pride and correct my errors by their wisdom.

 

[A150K]

.85 and you're still alive!? Or did you mean .085?

 

[ghoster]

As an AOPA regional attorney, I have had some experience with this issue. There are some questions that should be asked and answered. I would strongly recommend locating an aviation attorney in your area and pay him for an hour consultation to work thru the issues. A $2000 retainer seems a little excessive before the facts are even discussed.
I work primarily in Texas and you need an attorney who does work at the local FAA region that will handle this issue as sometimes it is who you know more than what you know.

 

[xargos]

My goat ate a book once. To my surprise, it didn't make her any smarter.

Let he who has wisdom understand.