Drop the Roger crap??
- Thread starter pilotsav27
- Start date
Polar742
All the responsibility none of the authority
Flying Tigers....Kuala Lampur
tgrayson
New Member
That's the reverse of the situation I mentioned, I think.
Polar742
All the responsibility none of the authority
An extra "to "too" "two" caused the confusion.
Personally, even in regards to some personal lax radio habits I had flying domestic, I never used "to" prior to an altitude. Then again, I never had to repeat my readback to ATC using that method either.
tgrayson
New Member
I know. I'm saying I haven't constructed a scenario whereby leaving out the "to" causes such a crash. This one occurred by inserting it.
Polar742
All the responsibility none of the authority
Well, I'm sure sometime it will happen.....
Anyrate, I fail reading comp 101 today.
I'll go about my way now....
tgrayson
New Member
X-Forces
Big Black Guy
Maybe it's just me, but that would be a mid air ass whooping right there!
I use Roger all the time, and as pointed out used properly it is useful and has its place.
My biggest pet peeve on the radio.....
ATC - "N123YZ ident...."
Pilot - "Roger, he comes.................."
I've been flying a lot of years now and I've never seen him.
Must be too fast!
Chief Captain
Well-Known Member
How's this for you?
The mountain peaks are at 9,000:
ATC: ABC123, Descend 280
ABC123
escend to 80, ABC123-or-
ATC: Turn right 280
ABC123: Turn right to 80
In both cases the ATC used improper RT also, which is rare, but it does happen when things get busy. I'm not throwing stones, because I've made the mistake, but be careful out there.
bdhill1979
Gone West
I remember reading a transcript between a controller and an F16:How's this for you?
The mountain peaks are at 9,000:
ATC: ABC123, Descend 280
ABC123
-or-
ATC: Turn right 280
ABC123: Turn right to 80
In both cases the ATC used improper RT also, which is rare, but it does happen when things get busy. I'm not throwing stones, because I've made the mistake, but be careful out there.
ATC: "Climb to Four thousand, best speed"
F16: "Climbing best speed Two Four Thousand"
I dont need to type the rest
Chief Captain
Well-Known Member
From the Pilot/Controller glossary:
ROGER- I have received all of your last transmission. It should not be used to answer a question requiring a yes or a no answer.
This is my pet peeve on the radio. NOTHING says "I'm an ass who watches too much TV" than a pilot who uses Roger where Affirmative should be used.
I'll forgive "the Virgin 1 Heavy" or "United's 5 heavy", but "Roger that, contact approach on one thirty two and a quarter" just makes you seem dumb, not "cool".
FWIW, in other countries Affirm is used instead of affirmative because it can be mistaken for negative.
ROGER- I have received all of your last transmission. It should not be used to answer a question requiring a yes or a no answer.
This is my pet peeve on the radio. NOTHING says "I'm an ass who watches too much TV" than a pilot who uses Roger where Affirmative should be used.
I'll forgive "the Virgin 1 Heavy" or "United's 5 heavy", but "Roger that, contact approach on one thirty two and a quarter" just makes you seem dumb, not "cool".
FWIW, in other countries Affirm is used instead of affirmative because it can be mistaken for negative.
Chief Captain
Well-Known Member
I can only imagine what would have happened if the controller missed the readback error.
bdhill1979
Gone West
The contoller did miss it. Of course the pilot missed it too, as those altitudes are given as Flight levels.
The F16 was blasting past FL200 when the next call came.
according to wiki: Rate of climb: 50,000 ft/min (254 m/s)
PeterPilot
New Member
http://www.avweb.com/news/sayagain/190337-1.html
Not new, but an excellent article for anyone who wishes to improve their communication procedures.
Not new, but an excellent article for anyone who wishes to improve their communication procedures.
pilotsav27
New Member
Just a little update: I was greatly Pissed off by this instructor and therefore have proceeded to find a new one! Which, I DID! I flew with a guy I've talked to around the airport, but had never given a chance to teach me anything! Teach is exactly what he did! I think I learned more in that one hour with him, than the rest of the time with my "other instructor". His cocky attitude and "unique" techniques have pushed me over the edge! No longer will I fly with him!
NOTE: He has never hit me with a ruler! I know he has others! They will tell you and so will he! Which I agree, is ridiculous! I do talk back to him and dont let him push me over, but he tries! Thats just his attitude! But thanks for getting me to see there was better to be had! Hopefully this all goes smoothly from here!!
NOTE: He has never hit me with a ruler! I know he has others! They will tell you and so will he! Which I agree, is ridiculous! I do talk back to him and dont let him push me over, but he tries! Thats just his attitude! But thanks for getting me to see there was better to be had! Hopefully this all goes smoothly from here!!
moxiepilot
Well-Known Member
good for you/
High_Alpha
Well-Known Member
My own pet peeves have mostly been covered, but they are, in no particular order:
"Roger" for "Affirmative"
Parrot readbacks of things that aren't clearances:
ATC: "xxx, slight delay at this altitude for crossing traffic, expect higher in 5 miles."
Pilot: "Roger xxx, expect higher in 5 miles clear of crossing traffic."
Ridiculous combinations of "With you," "Checking on," "Two-four-thousand," "Level One-six-zero" or "Flight Level One-eight-oh." Once in a while, one of these isn’t a big deal, but really, try to keep it short, keep it standard. Excessive verbosity is the negation of wit and the nexus of annoyance.
<o></o>
And, “Any other traffic please advise.”
<o></o>
Pilotsav, best wishes with your training! Demanding instructors are good (demanding as in having high expectations for you, to stretch you), but intimidation and disrespect are not the way to go about it. I’m glad you’ve found a good one.
"Roger" for "Affirmative"
Parrot readbacks of things that aren't clearances:
ATC: "xxx, slight delay at this altitude for crossing traffic, expect higher in 5 miles."
Pilot: "Roger xxx, expect higher in 5 miles clear of crossing traffic."
Ridiculous combinations of "With you," "Checking on," "Two-four-thousand," "Level One-six-zero" or "Flight Level One-eight-oh." Once in a while, one of these isn’t a big deal, but really, try to keep it short, keep it standard. Excessive verbosity is the negation of wit and the nexus of annoyance.
<o></o>And, “Any other traffic please advise.”
<o></o>
Pilotsav, best wishes with your training! Demanding instructors are good (demanding as in having high expectations for you, to stretch you), but intimidation and disrespect are not the way to go about it. I’m glad you’ve found a good one.
SpiraMirabilis
Possible Subversive
You're screwed when you're flying over a soviet bloc country and they assign flight levels in meters. Climb maintain, exactly, flight level 7000 meters.
TFaudree_ERAU
Mashin' dem buttons
I once flew with someone that asked me if I just had an orgasm when I said "oh" instead of "zero"