Douchey Pilot Things. A list

[Wardogg]

Never heard of this one.
What's the reasoning?

Its a version of a few famous people qoutes.

Abraham Lincoln "It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues."

Winston Churchill "Never trust a man without a vice."

Thornton Wilder "If a man has no vices, he's in great danger of making vices out of his virtues, and there's a spectacle."

 

[Fixtur]

Who’s talking about crocs?

 

[DropTank]

Its a version of a few famous people qoutes.

Abraham Lincoln "It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues."

Winston Churchill "Never trust a man without a vice."

Thornton Wilder "If a man has no vices, he's in great danger of making vices out of his virtues, and there's a spectacle."

I did not know that.

Thank you, sir!

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

I don't drink. That would make you not trust me?

To put it a different way: You're refusing to trust someone because they don't conform to harmful norms. Is that really how that's supposed to go?

I agree that it’s ridiculous to not trust someone just because they don’t drink. But it’s equally ridiculous to refer to drinking as a “harmful norm,” as if having a glass of whiskey is the equivalent of smoking a cigarette. Drinking in moderation is not only not harmful, it’s been shown in study after study to have health benefits.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Really? At your operation, you DON'T do pre-takeoff briefs?!?

I mean, good for you if it's all working, but that seems truly outside the norm.

False/unexamined assumptions are typically the things that kill the most...

I worked at several airlines, and we never briefed standard emergency procedures. Briefings are for things that aren’t standard.

 

[fholbert]

For things like that, pilots are the final check. Different in the mil where there are situations that the pilot is the final check, and situations where ground crew are the final check. Unless maintenance or someone else installed them for some reason after someone did the walk around of an airliner, that would be one of the few exceptions.

What basic human factors are there? it’s a preflight/walk around item, then it’s to be checked. As in, not gloss it off. It’s even a before start checklist item where I fly, as well as a preflight item. Again, not rocket science.

Aren‘t the pins left in place for pushback? The plane is already closed up and engines running.

I have seen ground crews hold the pins in a way they can be counted from the flight deck but that isn’t the norm. Always assumed the captain asked for that.

 

[Wardogg]

I worked at several airlines, and we never briefed standard emergency procedures. Briefings are for things that aren’t standard.

Every takeoff is standard. Until it isn't. How can you brief for the non standard things you dont know are coming?

Obviously you cant brief everything and I prefer not to. A brief is supposed to be brief for a reason.

 

[MikeD]

Aren‘t the pins left in place for pushback? The plane is already closed up and engines running.

I have seen ground crews hold the pins in a way they can be counted from the flight deck but that isn’t the norm. Always assumed the captain asked for that.

In civil airplanes, they’re not normally installed other than for Mx or an emergency, and are kept onboard. Still, they need to be ensured on preflight that they are, in fact, not installed. I’ve never seen them installed on the 737 I fly, but I‘d definitely notice them if they were, as I specifically look at those pinholes on the struts during the walkaround, both since it’s a preflight item, as well as its one of the few things near eye level that can actually be checked externally.

The showing the pins thing is more for mil, where an aircraft has gear pins, as well as pins for other things like racks, etc. And also for pins that are stored externally on the aircraft such as in a stowage box in the gear well. Again, not common for civil ops, nor necessarily needed. My only point is that if pins do happen to have been installed, that they should be noticed on a normal preflight, especially with streamers attached to them (and assuming that someone didn’t slip them into the gear after the flight crew already preflighted, for some reason). I’m not advocating that they must be installed for normal ops.

 

[fholbert]

In civil airplanes, they’re not normally installed other than for Mx or an emergency, and are kept onboard. Still, they need to be ensured on preflight that they are, in fact, not installed. I’ve never seen them installed on the 737 I fly, but I‘d definitely notice them if they were, as I specifically look at those pinholes on the struts during the walkaround, both since it’s a preflight item, as well as its one of the few things near eye level that can actually be checked externally.

The showing the pins thing is more for mil, where an aircraft has gear pins, as well as pins for other things like racks, etc. And also for pins that are stored externally on the aircraft such as in a stowage box in the gear well. Again, not common for civil ops, nor necessarily needed. My only point is that if pins do happen to have been installed, that they should be noticed on a normal preflight, especially with streamers attached to them (and assuming that someone didn’t slip them into the gear after the flight crew already preflighted, for some reason). I’m not advocating that they must be installed for normal ops.

I’m talking about 121 operations. Maybe the ground crew was holding them up saying: “You guys missed these!”

 

[MikeD]

I’m talking about 121 operations. Maybe the ground crew was holding them up saying: “You guys missed these!”

Oh, in terms of what the ground crew was doing in that situation. Perhaps he was, you may be right. Even though they are generally unusual to see in civil and 121 ops,

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Every takeoff is standard. Until it isn't. How can you brief for the non standard things you dont know are coming?

Obviously you cant brief everything and I prefer not to. A brief is supposed to be brief for a reason.

Takeoff briefings should cover the DP, obstacle clearance procedures, cleared altitude, etc. Not standard procedures that you should already know by heart.

 

[trafficinsight]

Briefings should cover what you are and aren't going to do to the extent necessary that the person sitting next to you is on the same page as you are and you're both comfortable with what's happening.

To sit here and argue that a briefing style used by company x or y is better or worse than another is.... a douchey pilot move.

 

[EIR]

I’m talking about 121 operations. Maybe the ground crew was holding them up saying: “You guys missed these!”

The ground crew is showing the crew the steering bypass pin has been removed.

 

[Kingairer]

The

Aren‘t the pins left in place for pushback? The plane is already closed up and engines running.

I have seen ground crews hold the pins in a way they can be counted from the flight deck but that isn’t the norm. Always assumed the captain asked for that.

That particular pin is a steering disengagement pin that stays with the tow bar/ground crew and not on the airplane. (Used to prevent unwanted activation of steering during pushback) Gear pins prevent gear retraction and stay with airplane at all time.

 

[trafficinsight]

The

That particular pin is a steering disengagement pin that stays with the tow bar/ground crew and not on the airplane. (Used to prevent unwanted activation of steering during pushback) Gear pins prevent gear retraction and stay with airplane at all time.

One time an FO brought me a set of gear pins and I went to stow them only to find.... they were already stowed.

Some mechanic had his own set of pins... which if you want field returns is how you get field returns!

 

[knot4u]

One time an FO brought me a set of gear pins and I went to stow them only to find.... they were already stowed.

Some mechanic had his own set of pins... which if you want field returns is how you get field returns!

I've worked with a lot of mechanics on a lot of different airplanes, and admittedly we do have have a tendency to create tooling to make our jobs a little easier. I've never come across a mechanic with a set of gear pins. I don't believe you.

 

[BobDDuck]

I've worked with a lot of mechanics on a lot of different airplanes, and admittedly we do have have a tendency to create tooling to make our jobs a little easier. I've never come across a mechanic with a set of gear pins. I don't believe you.

It's pretty common in 121.

 

[knot4u]

It's pretty common in 121.

Why would a mechanic need them if they're supposed to stay with the airplane and be installed and removed by the flight crew? Also they're not cheap.

 

[BobDDuck]

Why would a mechanic need them if they're supposed to stay with the airplane and be installed and removed by the flight crew? Also they're not cheap.

Because sometimes they are working on the gear, securing the plane, or doing any one of the many things they do, and don't have jetway access to the cockpit to get the pins up there. And the flight crew (in 121) NEVER installs or removes any pins or flagged items on the plane.

 

[knot4u]

Because sometimes they are working on the gear, securing the plane, or doing any one of the many things they do, and don't have jetway access to the cockpit to get the pins up there. And the flight crew (in 121) NEVER installs or removes any pins or flagged items on the plane.

I'll once again say I've never actually worked on a 121 airplane, all of my experience is 135, 145 or 91. I didn't mean to ruffle any feathers.