Corporate Culture Not Good In Aviation

I haven’t written out my shops mins for various approaches. Irrelevant information. I gave you the lowest RVR we can accept prior to commencing the approach, assuming a whole multitude of factors (eg, CAT 3 runway, working equipment, crew quals, etc etc).


Point being, we 121 don’t just go “forget the weather, I don’t care, I WANTZ THE APPROACH!!!”
 
On a side note, we can’t do PRM approaches anymore. Removed from our Op Specs.


So I apologize if I slow things down in Hotlanta the next time I fly there. :)
 
mikecweb said:
Who screwed up
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No one. Apparently they did the math and figured there’s only two places we fly to regularly (ORD, ATL) that do PRMs so it wasn’t worth training and re-training on something done so infrequent. Poof, gone.

Memo said if we are flying to those places and PRMs are in use, advise them as early as possible (100-120 miles out) that we can’t do PRMs.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
I haven’t written out my shops mins for various approaches. Irrelevant information. I gave you the lowest RVR we can accept prior to commencing the approach, assuming a whole multitude of factors (eg, CAT 3 runway, working equipment, crew quals, etc etc).


Point being, we 121 don’t just go “forget the weather, I don’t care, I WANTZ THE APPROACH!!!”
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You're emoting.

I'll ask more directly. If you start an approach, then the weather goes below minimums, well, choose your adventure!

Unless you like going:

huh-cat-huh-m4rtin.gif


then doing a missed approach to look it up in the ops specs.
 
Like anything, it depends. I’ve commenced approaches with Wx reported below mins while both 91 and while Mil to Wx moving through the airport area causing low ceilings/viz, as opposed to solid Wx going nowhere such as fog, etc, that are driving ceiling/viz. With the former, I’ve broken out at DH/MDA due to a break in ceiling/viz due to timing happenstance, and have been able to land. With the latter, where it’s much less of a chance of getting a break in the Wx, I’d only try that out if I had lots of playtime fuel-wise before having to divert.

So basically, it has depended on what type of Wx is driving the below mins, on what I’d do with it in those operations types. Obviously, it’s different for 135/121.
 
MikeD said:
Like anything, it depends. I’ve commenced approaches with Wx reported below mins while both 91 and while Mil to Wx moving through the airport area causing low ceilings, as opposed to solid Wx going nowhere such as fog, etc, that are driving ceiling/viz. With the former, I’ve broken out at DH/MDA due to a break in ceiling/viz due to timing happenstance, and have been able to land. With the latter, where it’s much less of a chance of getting a break in the Wx, I’d only try that out if I had lots of playtime fuel-wise before having to divert.

So basically, it has depended on what type of Wx is driving the below mins, on what I’d do with it in those operations types. Obviously, it’s different for 135/121.
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It's apparent that CC was talking smack and didn't have a firm grasp on his own backyard. :)
 
derg said:
You said it was a "whole different thing" which was an inarticulate answer. 1 out of 10, would not recommend.
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Go on, read the rest of that sentence.

Here, I’ll paste it for you.


“if you start an approach, inside FAF, and then WX changes.”




And then you asked “under all conditions?”



And I wrote:


“Obviously we aren’t discussing emergency authority, emergencies, WX going below mins once inside FAF. “


As in, those are valid reasons to continue or conduct an approach below mins.



I realize this is a troll attempt on your end, but come on.
 
zmiller4 said:
I know I’m a broken record, but this is what happens when you completely bypass the process of gaining any meaningful experience outside of being a 121 FO from the get go.

You end up criticizing operations you know less than nothing about and ending up looking foolish on the internet.
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Gawd, I've looked foolish in person more places than I can remember and could aspire to it being so "only" on the Internet😉
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Go on, read the rest of that sentence.

Here, I’ll paste it for you.


“if you start an approach, inside FAF, and then WX changes.”




And then you asked “under all conditions?”



And I wrote:


“Obviously we aren’t discussing emergency authority, emergencies, WX going below mins once inside FAF. “


As in, those are valid reasons to continue or conduct an approach below mins.



I realize this is a troll attempt on your end, but come on.
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Oh man, I imagine if I was giving you a type rating checkride, I'd end up saying "Ok, one more chance, in 10 words or less, is this legal or not?" before pink-slipping you.
 
Bob Ridpath said:
Gawd, I've looked foolish in person more places than I can remember and could aspire to it being so "only" on the Internet😉
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Bob, it’s absolutely okay to criticize an operation that is dangerous. Nothing wrong with that. I hope you don’t find yourself on a 91 jet where the pilots berate ATC for holding them and not letting them shoot an approach, when everyone else is holding.

The accident record for corporate jet crashes in 91 and 135 are worse than 121 in this country.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Bob, it’s absolutely okay to criticize an operation that is dangerous. Nothing wrong with that. I hope you don’t find yourself on a 91 jet where the pilots berate ATC for holding them and not letting them shoot an approach, when everyone else is holding.

The accident record for corporate jet crashes in 91 and 135 are worse than 121 in this country.
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It's hard to drive to the grocery store eight miles distant these days, so a 91/135 - even a 121 - flight is sadly unlikely, albeit not impossible to consider.

I DO understand your perspective but have no relevant expertise to either affirm or deny🤷‍♂️
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Because it’s a stupid decision.
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Perhaps you feel this way due to your limited personal experience as a pilot. Your experience is NOT that of others.

If, in fact, executing the approach in this discussion were considered a “stupid decision” with no variants, the FARs wouldn’t allow it.

Part 121 is more conservative for a reason and one reason only….more passengers. A 121 accident is higher profile in public opinion. This is not to state that Part 91 is dangerous but it is certainly different.

I’m a very selfish pilot. I WANT to live and I think about MY survival EVERYTIME I fly. I figure if I live through the flight, my passengers will live through the flight!

I have executed more “0/0” takeoffs than I have “0/0” landings but I’ve done both and will do so again if the situation dictates. AND I, along with all of my passengers lived!! Oh it’s a miracle!!!!!!

If YOU don’t want to or, most likely, can’t handle flying an approach that is below published minimums (or below your personal minimums), then don’t!!

But either way, stop the sanctimonious grandstanding….please!
 
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