Considering leaving the profession for good, could use advice

FlyChicaga said:
In April of 2011 I hung up my wings as an airline captain for a completely different career, so I'm offering my advice from that perspective. I also was not fond of early shows, but being a commuter for most of my career, I had to deal with them. When I finally managed to live in base, I still didn't like early shows. Going to bed early to wake up and walk to the subway by all the bars that were closing wasn't exactly fun. But, I did it, begrudgingly. So I feel your pain there.

I finally had to bail due to family reasons to improve my quality of life. In hindsight it was a great decision at the time. It provided me with a better quality of life, and because family is important to me, I didn't have time to sit and think about what I was missing in the airlines since I was too busy raising my children and focusing on advancing in my new career to provide for them. I don't think my children would be in the place they are in life if I wasn't able to raise them alone working bankers-type hours.

In my new career I had to take some risks as well, making some moves that could have worked against me. For instance, switching agencies and going through an entire new rigorous training program while my ex-wife was pregnant with our first child. If I failed, we wouldn't have income, and we had no savings. Talk about having motivation to succeed...

Because I took that risk, I was able to lead a successful career that led me back into a cockpit. Because of my return to aviation, that then led me into a teaching role in a college aviation program. Now, my life is in a place I never could have imagined if I would have stayed comfortable and slugged it out in my airline career. I learned that I am very passionate about teaching and mentoring. I had no interest in being a flight instructor when I was beginning my career, but now I just earned my AGI, I'm working on my IGI, and I love coming to the classroom to teach.

Because of my renewed passion for aviation, teaching and mentorship, I am exploring potential opportunities to return to the airlines or something similar. Who knows where my life might go at this point, but it has definitely not been what I expected when I was graduating college in 2003.

Enough about me... why do I share all this? My point is that leaving the airlines could be a very good choice for you. You may love flying, but do you love it enough to keep putting up with this stress? It takes a lot of intestinal fortitude to leave something you've put a lot of yourself into for something completely different. It is scary to make the jump. You have clearly made tough choices in your life and taken other risks to pursue happiness, and with those risks you seem to have found the happiness you are looking for. I do not know you... heck, I haven't been on these boards in years... but from reading your posts I get a feeling like you know it's time to leave for something new, but you want to hear that it will be OK. From someone who left, I will tell you, it will be OK. Leaving may take you directions you never imagined, and maybe eventually you will circle back. Or maybe you won't. Life is way too short to be constantly overloaded with stress. Go get a tech job, build a top-end PC, download Microsoft Flight Simulator, get a cup holder for your beer/whiskey/vodka/whatever, and stay up until 6am "flying." Sleep in, work hard, enjoy your friends and family, and try to rent a plane once or twice a month. It. Will. Be. OK.

I wish you the best of luck in your future endeavors.
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I feel like ive seen a ghost!
 
FWIW, haven’t cleaned a lav yet :)

91 isn’t without challenges - but it’s by far been my most rewarding job.

Boss is an engineer- which was my degree program. He’s moved into aviation and brings me in as a consultant in what amounts largely to a think tank. As somebody who is really bad with idle time this is a far better creative outlet than being left to my own devices.

The schedule does get hectic, but we average 130 hours a year, home for all the holidays (as in they will travel early to make sure we make it home - even for small ones like Father’s Day/Mothers Day).

There’s good and bad jobs all over.

Regardless best of luck with whatever your chose. I also left the airlines. Had twins on the way going into bankruptcy - didn’t want that stress so I voted with my feet if you will. My “goal” is to retire when this plane goes away and just contract. I’m guessing that’s about 10 years honestly.
 
🦈💜 said:
But mostly, I really just want to not think about it. And when I spend two interviews getting misgendered, and I have to try to figure out how to explain to the interviewers that I'm not a guy with long hair, a pantsuit and no tie while they're sirring me, it does make me wonder whether it's a factor in my evaluation. Especially when it continues after I provide a polite correction. Was it malicious? I generally doubt it. But if it wasn't, then that misunderstanding certainly could set the tone going forward. Like I said, I have no idea if it was a factor. But the interview prep person seemed to think I would do well, as did the two CP M&Gs I did. According to the person doing logbook review, and my conversations with my fellow interviewees, I was far more qualified than most applicants they were seeing, and they seemed to talk like hiring me was a no-brainer. The truth is, I don't know, and never will. Perhaps I was competitive and they chose somebody else just barely ahead of me. Perhaps I rubbed someone the wrong way.
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Only saying this as a friend, I would not bring this up or correct them in an interview. ~15 minutes of pain in exchange for a 21 yr career. Think of it as cooperate to graduate. You’ll most likely never see them again. Screw what they think. I would just answer their questions and move on to the next one. If the say Sir, I know it sucks and is a personal gut punch (even when unintentional), but I think in an interview setting, let it pass. Don’t correct them.

Once you’re hired and off probation, then you can let them know one day how you felt about their misgendering and questioning. That day and time will come.



The whole process sucks. I feel where you’re coming from. I tell @Maximilian_Jenius the same thing. Hang in there, you’ve been at it so long, and you will make it. Don’t give up!
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Only saying this as a friend, I would not bring this up or correct them in an interview. ~15 minutes of pain in exchange for a 21 yr career. Think of it as cooperate to graduate. You’ll most likely never see them again. Screw what they think. I would just answer their questions and move on to the next one. If the say Sir, I know it sucks and is a personal gut punch (even when unintentional), but I think in an interview setting, let it pass. Don’t correct them.

Once you’re hired and off probation, then you can let them know one day how you felt about their misgendering and questioning. That day and time will come.



The whole process sucks. I feel where you’re coming from. I tell @Maximilian_Jenius the same thing. Hang in there, you’ve been at it so long, and you will make it. Don’t give up!
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Eh, I’m vehemently against this. @🦈💜 should not have to worry about correcting someone on this if it’s a misstep. If it was, a quick apology should be the end of that. You shouldn’t have to hide who you are as a human being, just to get a job. The rest of playing the game, I digress.
 
TUCKnTRUCK said:
FWIW, haven’t cleaned a lav yet :)

91 isn’t without challenges - but it’s by far been my most rewarding job.

Boss is an engineer- which was my degree program. He’s moved into aviation and brings me in as a consultant in what amounts largely to a think tank. As somebody who is really bad with idle time this is a far better creative outlet than being left to my own devices.

The schedule does get hectic, but we average 130 hours a year, home for all the holidays (as in they will travel early to make sure we make it home - even for small ones like Father’s Day/Mothers Day).

There’s good and bad jobs all over.

Regardless best of luck with whatever your chose. I also left the airlines. Had twins on the way going into bankruptcy - didn’t want that stress so I voted with my feet if you will. My “goal” is to retire when this plane goes away and just contract. I’m guessing that’s about 10 years honestly.
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So who cleans the lav? Who cleans the lav when you're not at home base?
 
DPApilot said:
Eh, I’m vehemently against this. @🦈💜 should not have to worry about correcting someone on this if it’s a misstep. If it was, a quick apology should be the end of that. You shouldn’t have to hide who you are as a human being, just to get a job. The rest of playing the game, I digress.
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I understand the sentiment- as a cis male whoes not had to deal with it- it’s easy to say “I’d not care”. Much like I don’t care when Starbucks calls me Jerry.

But it’s one of those “if you don’t know, you don’t know what you don’t know” things and prob best to not say anything. I mean for all I know it might be like telling Ashley Judd that it’s only 5 minutes of pain for the career you wanted.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
The whole process sucks. I feel where you’re coming from. I tell @Maximilian_Jenius the same thing. Hang in there, you’ve been at it so long, and you will make it. Don’t give up!
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I'm not giving up just yet. I've definitely gone through my bitter, depressed phase during the pandemic. When I read her first post, I immediately thought, I could be making one of these post early next year. Lol.

Why? Because numerous and I mean numerous friends, that I know, most in PHX and some out of state that applied for instructor jobs (and some even got interviewed) here and in Florida and other places nationally. Got the TBNT, or were ghosted. Most were ghosted.

Again, why? Back filling. People are staying longer at their CFI job now that regionals aren't hiring, and the legacies have slowed down their hiring. So flight schools aren't hiring instructors. The like five big name pilot mills, here in PHX, are saturated and generally don't hire off the street, preferring their own students to transition to instructors. One of my friends actually got out of the industry altogether, not too long ago. He was super frustrated and depressed, couldn't hack it. He was like Chris Brown. "Hatin' on the outside of club, but he couldn't even get in. Lego!" He said that he had done all the hard work, tried to pay his dues, was even willing to move anywhere nationally for an instructing job. But all doors were shut in his face.

I'm not going to let their experience deter me, especially since they currently don't affect me. Who knows what the aviation industry at least at the low-time level, or even at the precipice, will be, when I finish my three instructor ratings, in months. But yeah I can see his point that, that would indeed be quite a bitter pill to swallow. Just glad that I don't have to deal with that right now. But what I might have to deal with might be worse, when I'm ready. I dunno, not worried about it. My mantra is always control, what you can control. It's often hard to do, yes. But it generally is my thinking.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Only saying this as a friend, I would not bring this up or correct them in an interview. ~15 minutes of pain in exchange for a 21 yr career. Think of it as cooperate to graduate. You’ll most likely never see them again. Screw what they think. I would just answer their questions and move on to the next one. If the say Sir, I know it sucks and is a personal gut punch (even when unintentional), but I think in an interview setting, let it pass. Don’t correct them.
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I honestly wasn't sure what to do—I let it go with the first interviewer, but when the HR person was doing it, I tried to gently correct it because I didn't want to get dinged on "appearance" standards. I asked for advice on what to do and was advised to correct them, so on subsequent interviews I did. (Though only one person corrected themselves afterward.)

It doesn't come up in the 1 on 1 part, because usually people don't have anyone to use third-person pronouns to.

Yes, it's a gut punch. But it's mostly understandable the first time, if my clothing/appearance is ambiguous.
 
🦈💜 said:
This is a great example of how not to be an ally, and it's what really made me stew. And everybody "like"d it.
You should fight for what you believe is right. You should fight for marginalized people because it's the right thing to do, even if they themselves won't or can't stand up for themselves. There are many trans people assaulted/accosted/attacked/murdered in red states for being trans, because bigots have been whipped into a frenzy. You think I should move there and take my family so that I don't "insult" the people there who are fighting for "me"? Believe me, I have family and friends in places like that who are fighting every day to make things better there, and I love them for it. I don't forget that even 60% red is still 40% blue. But that doesn't mean I want to go fight on the front lines right now, or subject my mates to hateful bigots.

Just because you don't see this stuff doesn't mean that we don't, and it doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.
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I am going to assume you didn’t realize who the person is behind my username.

Do me a favor and replace trans with Jewish in your statement, does it make it any less true? It doesn’t. That is why I stand with trans and LGBTQ people because the people who want to hurt you also want to hurt me.

I live in a city that is always ranked in the top 10 as safest cities for LGBTQ+ and Trans people, how do you think that happens?

And no city is perfect, the bigots are everywhere. Last month some bigot made it very clear he wished I was un-alive for no other reason than I was Jewish. Two awesome guys who also are on this website made it clear that wasn’t going to happen.

Good luck, I am going to enjoy one of the biggest prides in the US this weekend in my city.
 
Gonzo said:
I live in a city that is always ranked in the top 10 as safest cities for LGBTQ+ and Trans people, how do you think that happens?

And no city is perfect, the bigots are everywhere. Last month some bigot made it very clear he wished I was un-alive for no other reason than I was Jewish. Two awesome guys who also are on this website made it clear that wasn’t going to happen.
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Interesting indeed where the Jewish hate, and full-on Hamas terrorist support, is coming from in the blue parts of the USA.

Will the real Nazis please stand up? At least these people are showing clearly who they are.
 
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