Considering leaving the profession for good, could use advice

I think there's a ton of great advice in this thread. The best come from Derg in my opinion. Keep grinding.

After my first furlough in 1998, I went back to the bottom at the same turboprop commuter I left - because you have to keep grinding.

After my second furlough in 2002, I went to an LCC that went tango uniform while I was still in training, so I got back out there and got hired by another turboprop commuter because you have to keep grinding.

Later in 2002 when that turboprop commuter furloughed me I went to an RJ commuter... because you have to keep grinding. And when I was fed up, sick, and tired of that RJ commuter, I found a corporate part 91 job before I quit the commuter job.

8 years later after that corporate part 91 job had its first ever furlough and the rest of us were being beaten like a rented mule, I decided it was time to grind some more and went through two MORE airlines before I ended up here - and took a $100,000 pay cut to do it!!! WITH a wife and young child at home. AND it required a relocation. Because this business is cold and unforgiving ... but also so easy to fall in love with. So you have got to keep grinding.
10 airlines (including one corporate part 91 operator) over a couple of decades. 22 interviews.

If I can do it, so can you. And yes, go do some interview prep. And what the heck, get a degree. College educated people have more thoughtful discussions in the flight deck anyway
 
How does one go to Breeze and back to Skywest??? That seems crazy....Like how bad is Breeze?? Bad enough to go back to the bottom at SKYW???

I know someone at Breeze and they like it a lot better than the regional they came from. Its not really a regional-type of schedule either. Most of the flying he does in the A220 is coast to coast and rarely anything under 3 hours. They are dumping their E-Jets and going all in on the A220.
 
I know someone at Breeze and they like it a lot better than the regional they came from. Its not really a regional-type of schedule either. Most of the flying he does in the A220 is coast to coast and rarely anything under 3 hours. They are dumping their E-Jets and going all in on the A220.
Yeah. Not long after I started at Spirit, someone told me about a pilot who hated RES there so much they went back to SkyWest.

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That one sounds like a “failure to adapt,” not a quality of work life problem.
 
100% agree, or maybe they dearly missed doing those 4-day trips with 4 to 5 legs a day.
I missed the “hop up and down the west coast for four days” Alaska trips, but not enough to stay put voluntarily.
 
Tbh , Rome wasn’t built
In a day. Stress (which is kinda what the original post reads like) is cumulative - and sometimes it just takes a few small changes to make it feel like a big change.

I’m sorry that it feels like the current job is crap- it sucks. I get that it feels like you don’t have any time- but- I might start with a sleep study and see if I could figure out why my circadian rhythm was nocturnal. You might surprise yourself and find that it’s something as simple as a medication at the wrong time shifting sleep habits. Maybe not- but, I’ve learned the last few years as I age- that taking care of myself first certainly
Helps with the rest of the days problems. Not nearly as able to just shrug things off as I once was.
 
I've been debating whether to participate further, but I decided to reply.

Pretty much none of you know me very well, even after all this time. It's funny, because I've spent decades here listening to people's thoughts, hopes, fears and dreams on everything, trying to understand how you all view the world, and trying to provide a little perspective on viewpoints you might not have in your experience.

When I posted this last week, I was definitely at an emotional low, at a peak of mental and physical exhaustion. Some of you have been there. Some of you just think you have. Some have seen worse. Regardless, I was reaching out for support, advice, and to see if anyone had any creative ideas. A few people did—to those of you who actually listened to my request and took the time to reply, thank you.

To the rest: I know some of you put some thought and invested time in your responses, and for that you have my appreciation, but most of the replies are non-responsive to the issues I'm facing. Frankly, a significant amount of the thread was devoted to a "tough love" circlejerk, where people used my emotional state as a springboard to their grievances about me, my worldview, what they perceive as my attitude and nature. Furthermore, I am fairly angry with being told that I'm "making myself a victim," as it's the repetition of a rather meaningless "zinger."

A few notes:

I never said bad things happen because I'm trans. I really frankly don't give a rats ass about being trans—despite what you might think, it's not my identity, except inasmuch as I have to explain it. I've also chosen to be visible and stand up as an example to show that that we are among you, with the same hopes, dreams and problems as anyone else. I also am there so that when some closeted, scared transwoman gets off the flight, they see me.

But mostly, I really just want to not think about it. And when I spend two interviews getting misgendered, and I have to try to figure out how to explain to the interviewers that I'm not a guy with long hair, a pantsuit and no tie while they're sirring me, it does make me wonder whether it's a factor in my evaluation. Especially when it continues after I provide a polite correction. Was it malicious? I generally doubt it. But if it wasn't, then that misunderstanding certainly could set the tone going forward. Like I said, I have no idea if it was a factor. But the interview prep person seemed to think I would do well, as did the two CP M&Gs I did. According to the person doing logbook review, and my conversations with my fellow interviewees, I was far more qualified than most applicants they were seeing, and they seemed to talk like hiring me was a no-brainer. The truth is, I don't know, and never will. Perhaps I was competitive and they chose somebody else just barely ahead of me. Perhaps I rubbed someone the wrong way.

But none of that was the point. At all. I wasn't complaining about not getting hired, even if it hurts.

Next, the bizarre suggestion that there was something wrong with my home life is, frankly, irritating—my home life is extremely happy and the reason I'm stressed on my days off is that I don't want to leave.

As for the financial parts: I'm on track to make ~$200k this year, but it's going to be the first year I've done so, and in my previous 2-3 years as CA, the most I made was $92k. As an FO, I don't think I broke $50k. I made ends meet but just barely. So all of the people criticizing me for my financial choices are doing so mostly for their own benefit.

I also really, truly don't care about money, and the money was never the focus of the thing. I'm not in this career for money. I'm in because I love flying, and because I want quality of life, and right now I have none. I have no interest in "the brass ring" or anything of that nature. I would love a career that I can be loyal to and enjoy for a few more decades before I call it quits.

Sleep schedule: Yes, it's the root of a lot of the suck. I'm nocturnal. It's not a lifestyle choice, it's a physiological thing. I could get a sleep study done, but I don't see the point. Even if I could change my circadian rhythm, I wouldn't want to do it. Red-eyes are great for me, and if I could do an entire career of them it'd be great. AM flying, for me, IS back-side-of-the-clock. But I'm also just working way too much to be healthy. And it's not just me—all of the FOs have noticed that all of us in the left seat are zombies. Many of my friends here want out ASAP because they're so burnt out and exhausted. That includes people with 20+ years of seniority.

My leaving my prior job: I didn't quit my job as capriciously as some of you seem to think. I left for the right reasons, and they're still valid.
The gritty details, if anyone cares: After surgery, I was physically unable to work the schedules captains work at my shop. But my twelve weeks of FMLA was up and the surgeon considered me fit to work (Because if I worked a reasonable 9-5 job 5-days a week, I would be. But not 12-14 hour days with no privacy and min-rest in a Comfort Suites in Redmond). I didn't have any reason not to go back on the line, and the company was pressing me to come back, and so I offered my resignation. By the time my CP offered me a LOA instead, I already had tech work lined up as well as multiple airline interviews, and I didn't want to string them along. I also wanted to focus on my health and get back to athleticism and fitness. With the information I had at the time, it was one of the best—and hardest—decisions I've ever made.

Career changing/paying your dues: I'm not a career changer, and I didn't have parents pay my way through training. I couldn't get a loan for college or flight school. I've paid my dues many times over, thank you. I've been flying professionally for a decade now. Yes, I know that lots of people did it for longer before they made it to a "career destination," and there are lots of people who've had it worse, overall, than I have. I'm not complaining comparatively. Heck, my first CFI back in the mid 1990s had thousands of hours and was instructing in an aztec hoping to hit 1000 multi so he could get on with a regional. (He geared up the aztec, and as far as I know left aviation)

The summary: The long and short of it is that my motivations aren't likely the same as yours. I also will not be pressured into conforming, and tough love is bullying, not care. Don't project your motivations on to me, give me the advice you'd give yourself, and expect me to thank you for it. I'm asking for advice that applies to the me I thought you guys knew.

The last thing I'll say is that there's a certain tone-deafness to suggesting that LGBTQ+ people should tread softly to avoid pissing off allies right now. It's very much a "thoughts and prayers" response from "the white moderate," as the saying goes. Very much like the "I support black people, but I don't want 'em marching down my street." If you're not paying attention to the erosion of trans rights or the rising tide of violence, bathroom bills, discriminatory legislation, and so on, we probably seem like we're just being dramatic. I would suggest you educate yourself.

I will concede that I wasn't very clear in my original post or my replies, since I was incredibly stressed, and pressed for time, and posting from my phone. But I would like to think that I'd earned a little bit of respect and latitude over the years here, and that you all knew me better.

Apparently I was wrong.

Ta.
 
My final piece of advice. The quote in my signature has been there since before I even started my career.

"Many of life’s failures are people who did not realize how close they were to success when they gave up."

I've found it to be true time and time again. We go through trials in our lives over and over again. Depending on what we’re striving for the amount of time and effort required before a success is found can sometimes be long and laborious, but always worth it if it’s truly the success you desire.

You said your motivations are different than ours. Well we’re on here more or less because we’re motivated to fly airplanes, but the endeavor in that motivation is not always so clear. From where we’ve all been we would consider your perch at SkyWest a good place to be. If your motivations are different than flying planes, then I’m not sure this forum is the best place for the advice you’re trying to seek whatever that may be.

If your sleep schedule and fatigue are really the core issue here then you should look at all the advice specific to fatigue in this thread and make a change because there are hundreds of other pilots in your shoes doing the same thing and making it work quite well. Reserve may be rough, but it’s not unnavigable. This is also not a forever thing. You will eventually (and quite rapidly compared to other times in history) get seniority and/or get a bite from another airline.

Best of luck
 
You ask for advice, but only specific to your worldview, then get pissy when people offer advice. The thing here is everyone who responded has not lived your life or exactly know what your motivations are, and how could they? It’s confusing at best, and kind of rude at worst. I’ve been a member of JC for 2 decades, 99% of the folks here are trying to help. People who spent their time and experience trying to help you just got unceremoniously told to kick rocks.
 
I know you're angry at the world, your situation, whatever, but most of the people (aside from the derail) were offering genuine advice. If your main issue is that we don't understand your plight, @derg suggested that you reach out to some pilot groups or go to conventions that will have like minded people who have made the trek before you, and you seemed to ignore that.
 
But mostly, I really just want to not think about it. And when I spend two interviews getting misgendered, and I have to try to figure out how to explain to the interviewers that I'm not a guy with long hair, a pantsuit and no tie while they're sirring me, it does make me wonder whether it's a factor in my evaluation. Especially when it continues after I provide a polite correction. Was it malicious? I generally doubt it. But if it wasn't, then that misunderstanding certainly could set the tone going forward. Like I said, I have no idea if it was a factor. But the interview prep person seemed to think I would do well, as did the two CP M&Gs I did. According to the person doing logbook review, and my conversations with my fellow interviewees, I was far more qualified than most applicants they were seeing, and they seemed to talk like hiring me was a no-brainer. The truth is, I don't know, and never will. Perhaps I was competitive and they chose somebody else just barely ahead of me. Perhaps I rubbed someone the wrong way.

If no trans people were passing hiring interviews at airlines, or even the ones you interviewed at, then this could have some validity. Your last two assertions are more likely the case.

My leaving my prior job: I didn't quit my job as capriciously as some of you seem to think. I left for the right reasons, and they're still valid.
The gritty details, if anyone cares: After surgery, I was physically unable to work the schedules captains work at my shop. But my twelve weeks of FMLA was up and the surgeon considered me fit to work (Because if I worked a reasonable 9-5 job 5-days a week, I would be. But not 12-14 hour days with no privacy and min-rest in a Comfort Suites in Redmond). I didn't have any reason not to go back on the line, and the company was pressing me to come back, and so I offered my resignation. By the time my CP offered me a LOA instead, I already had tech work lined up as well as multiple airline interviews, and I didn't want to string them along. I also wanted to focus on my health and get back to athleticism and fitness. With the information I had at the time, it was one of the best—and hardest—decisions I've ever made.

So you took a gamble. Thats fine. People take gambles all the time. The trick is being prepared for if that gamble doesn’t work out, and what to do from there, and both knowing and accepting the consequences. That latter of which you aren’t doing, to your own detriment. You can’t change the past, but you can affect the future.

For example, if you are a physiological nocturnal person, and you love to fly. Perhaps finding a flying gig that is back side of the clock, is for you. And if money isn’t something you care about, perhaps an EMS fixed wing gig (since there would be a pay cut)? Whether or not that will line up with living where you live and the costs therein, only you would know. If it does, great. If not, then you would have some changes/choices to make IF you wanted to actually make a change to help a circadian issue that you say cannot itself be changed. That’s just one idea, and one example……tailored as much to your overall situation as can be. Be prepared though, as you well know, that you may have to go to where the jobs are.

Career changing/paying your dues: I'm not a career changer, and I didn't have parents pay my way through training. I couldn't get a loan for college or flight school. I've paid my dues many times over, thank you. I've been flying professionally for a decade now. Yes, I know that lots of people did it for longer before they made it to a "career destination," and there are lots of people who've had it worse, overall, than I have. I'm not complaining comparatively. Heck, my first CFI back in the mid 1990s had thousands of hours and was instructing in an aztec hoping to hit 1000 multi so he could get on with a regional. (He geared up the aztec, and as far as I know left aviation)

The career changer subject seems to be a sidebar. No, you’re not a classic career changer. But on the paying dues part, one thing you did when you left your airline the first time, was cash in your dues, so to speak. How the system works in the 121 world. So, if you chose to return, you knew where that would place you. Rightly or wrongly, leaving your place in line in 121, results in you having to go to the back of the line when you return, even to the same place. Does it suck? It does indeed. it’s a form of having to pay dues again, but it’s not fine print that no one is aware of either. If it places you in a position of fatigue, there was advice given no combatting that.

The summary: The long and short of it is that my motivations aren't likely the same as yours. I also will not be pressured into conforming, and tough love is bullying, not care. Don't project your motivations on to me, give me the advice you'd give yourself, and expect me to thank you for it. I'm asking for advice that applies to the me I thought you guys knew.

Like has been said, you can’t expect people who haven’t lived your specific situation, to know your situation, and give you advice tailored to that. Being a pilot and saying you “are in this for the love of flying”, then expect that fellow pilots are going to give you advice based on being……a fellow pilot, with the same motivation(s) as quoted.

If that is some form of being told to conform, or bullying, then I don’t know what to tell you. No one can read your mind and no one can live your life, with all the self-imposed walls, limitations, and narrow career path that you seemingly won’t allow any deviations for, to match up with. No one knows those but you. Don’t kill the messengers just because the message you asked for, aren’t ones that fit the specific shape into the specific hole, that is your specific life.

No one knows your absolute specific situation. And even if they did, much of the advice given here is general advice that would apply to anyone. Like it or not, sometimes we have to conform to the job we want; as the job we want isn’t going to necessarily always conform to us. That’s life, aviation or otherwise.

Best way it’s been put to me a very long time ago, when I too have gotten frustrated at places I’ve been: “Daff, here’s the lowdown. This place is train that moves along at 5 mph. You can get in front of it and try and pull it, you can get behind it and try and push it, or you can get on it and ride along. But no matter what you do, it only moves at 5 mph. No more, no less.”
 
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