🦈💜
Well-Known Member
I tried that on the ALPA OC for three years-ish. They wanted 80% contact information for the pilot group, which wasn't happening due to influx/outflow.
Considering leaving the profession for good, could use advice
- Thread starter 🦈💜
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I tried that on the ALPA OC for three years-ish. They wanted 80% contact information for the pilot group, which wasn't happening due to influx/outflow.
Murdoughnut
Well sized member
Definitely don't listen to this guy ...
www.linkedin.com
The End of the U.S. Pilot Shortage Could Spell Trouble for Thousands of Deeply Indebted Student Pilots
Commercial pilot supply in the United States has long been represented by a dynamic pendulum, swinging briskly from shortage to surplus, though seemingly never lingering at a place of equilibrium for very long. Consequently, those of us who’ve spent decades roaming the halls of flight schools (and d
www.linkedin.com
I think the author should post that whole thing on JC as a stand alone thread. Good stuff.Definitely don't listen to this guy ...
The End of the U.S. Pilot Shortage Could Spell Trouble for Thousands of Deeply Indebted Student Pilots
Commercial pilot supply in the United States has long been represented by a dynamic pendulum, swinging briskly from shortage to surplus, though seemingly never lingering at a place of equilibrium for very long. Consequently, those of us who’ve spent decades roaming the halls of flight schools (and d
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
I'll be honest, this is a HUGE fear of mine. In this thread, I think that my first post was talking exactly about this issue, as I was hearing it from friends and friends of friends and reading it on FB pilot groups and other message boards. Related to pipeline issues backing up so far that 250 hr. students straight out of primary training, can't get low-time jobs such as pipeline, aerial symmetry jobs, and even flight instructor jobs, to build necessary hours/experience due to increased competitive mins. at low-time jobs. Brought about by more pilots at the low-time level seeking advancement, than actual low-time jobs available. Causing them to have to get jobs/careers outside of aviation, in order to make ends meet, or just get out of aviation all together.Definitely don't listen to this guy ...
The End of the U.S. Pilot Shortage Could Spell Trouble for Thousands of Deeply Indebted Student Pilots
Commercial pilot supply in the United States has long been represented by a dynamic pendulum, swinging briskly from shortage to surplus, though seemingly never lingering at a place of equilibrium for very long. Consequently, those of us who’ve spent decades roaming the halls of flight schools (and d
In the past few months I've actually left behavioral health, brought about by my employers bankruptcy and I'm starting out in law enforcement, as a non sworn officer, working as a juvenile detention officer, working the adolescent non adjudicated sexually maladaptive unit. My manager likes my work and has stated that I could have a good career in law enforcement, should I be interested. With good pay and great benefits. He said that post JDO I could become an juvenile investigator officer related to sex crimes, a probation officer, etc. He said that if I had the drive and the interest, I could go far. Honestly, I'm at least considering it. At forty-eight, I don't have the time to wait things out in aviation if things go south, with another lost decade and be holding a bag of debt and fulfilled promises.
I think that a serious reevaluation on my part needs to take place, regarding risk, reward and ROI of still wanting to enter into this career.
Definitely don't listen to this guy ...
The End of the U.S. Pilot Shortage Could Spell Trouble for Thousands of Deeply Indebted Student Pilots
Commercial pilot supply in the United States has long been represented by a dynamic pendulum, swinging briskly from shortage to surplus, though seemingly never lingering at a place of equilibrium for very long. Consequently, those of us who’ve spent decades roaming the halls of flight schools (and d
Just for clarification, the part about United isn’t accurate… they froze for a short time and are bringing in classes (big classes) in a week and a half with plans for multiple classes monthly. Of course that all can change but that’s the plan for now.
Murdoughnut
Well sized member
Ahh, good to know.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Congrats on the new job!
I hope you stick it out with aviation. IMO, it’s not a lost decade. Minor hiccup slowdowns, but it should pick up again. Not as crazy as 2021-2023, but still a fairly decent amount.
How far along are you now?
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
Honestly I hope to stick it out as well, just nervously worried about future career prospects is all. I hope to be starting my instructor rating in a few months time and hope to be able to get hired on when finished.
ClearedForOption
Psychiatric Help 5¢
Other data points to address... the pathway to hiring through the airline sponsored zero-to-hero programs and how that's going to affect both Major/Legacy hiring in the future. Also - peak retirements from the last hiring waves. Not post-plague hiring, but the time leading up to that. i.e. the Legacy retirements over the next few years and the retirements that are going to bump in the early 2030's (32-34ish?) at Eskimo, SWA, etc. Will the people starting today be looking at those airlines as their final destination vs. the "Big 3" - not unlike the '06-'10 timeline when we all stood in line for facetime with AirTran/SWA and were buying 737 types to boost our resumes.Definitely don't listen to this guy ...
The End of the U.S. Pilot Shortage Could Spell Trouble for Thousands of Deeply Indebted Student Pilots
Commercial pilot supply in the United States has long been represented by a dynamic pendulum, swinging briskly from shortage to surplus, though seemingly never lingering at a place of equilibrium for very long. Consequently, those of us who’ve spent decades roaming the halls of flight schools (and d
ozziecat35
4 out of 5 great lakes prefer Michigan.
The details are a little fuzzy as some adult beverages were involved, then @mattc206 finally answered his phone and got his butt over to @derg and I, but I digress.
Listen, this job is awesome, but it takes its toll on the family regardless of how much we mold our schedules, how senior we get, etc. I left full time IT 6 years ago to finally chase the airline dream. I was home every night, but I knew I'd never be really happy until I was able to at least get a shot at full time aviation. Now, I can honestly say I bring home a better version of me after a trip vs walking in from the office. I'm not getting emails to reset passwords at all hours and dealing with the same inanity that full time IT left me with ( and I was at a good, government gig.)
When my wife and I had kids, I knew I wanted to be a better father than my dad was. That's not to say I wasn't provided for, but having parents divorce when you're 4 years old, and not getting the best examples of family / parenthood definitely stick with you, even if you don't realize it at the time. Based on that, I learned to keep dating my wife. It's so easy in the middle of the absolute battle of attrition that is parenthood, to become roommates with your spouse. My kids learned that they are not the most important people in my life. Their mom is. We try and go out on dates every month, I take my her on a cruise every year. The kids get to come every other year. The first year they objected, I told them this: "Before we were ever Mom and Dad, we were husband and wife and boyfriend / girlfriend before that. In order to be the best mom and dad we can be, we need to go away, and remember what it's like to be husband and wife."
Like this isn't new information, but it's easy to get lost sometimes when you're in the middle of building a career or raising kids. I also know I depend on my wife for a lot. She has a lot on her plate when I'm at work, essentially living her dream in a hotel with no one asking me for anything. I figured out a couple years ago, that when I'm at work, that's my time to relax, any recreation at home like golf, hockey, or woodworking is bonus. When I drive home, I get my head right, because the weather and MEL's don't matter anymore, cause that got left at the gate. When I walk in the door, someone is gonna need something. I am now dad. I coach little league when I can, I bid weekends so I'm home during the week to make lunches and get kids to school. I shuttle the practices as much as I can when I can, because when I'm gone, it's ALL on her.
Oh, and I also don't let win at MarioKart...#nofreerides
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CoffeeIcePapers
Well-Hung Member
There’s just a log jam right now. Even if bookings slow down, people are still retiring and planes are still coming. You want to be in a position to be ahead of the next wave if you can.
For example, AA cut pilot hiring in half this year, and are still close to pre-covid record hiring numbers.
Things are good, you’re fine, go fly.
2022 and 2023 were anomalies and when you’re driving at 110 mph on I-10, then slow to 70, it feels like an RTO.
But it wasn’t.
Go fly. Do it now.
Autothrust Blue
PCU M/Y SPIRIT OF MELLIE
Insert other legacy airline name for AA and yeah. Post-peak silliness, and so on.
🦈💜
Well-Known Member
My advice? Focus on getting your CFI and don't spend a lot of time worrying about what happens after. Use it. Don't look at it a stepping stone, but as a way to do something you're passionate about. We will need CFIs for the appreciable future—flight instructors are the guardians of aviation lore, in many ways, no matter what else they do. I'm still an active CFI. Many of us are.
If you ever lose your medical, you can still instruct. If the industry implodes, you can still instruct.
I understand the worry. The truth is, you basically pays your money and you takes your chances. 'Sjust how it goes.
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
Agreed.
You still writing that recommendation for me? School called me the other day?
I'm not worried right now about getting to a regional, or to a major. That's not my immediate concern, my flagging concern/anxiety is will I be able to get a seat post CFI/CFII/MEI, as an instructor, to be able to advance and build hours and experience. I'm not worried about being able to actually start my instructor ratings. I get emails at least once a week from the AeroGuard and CAE recruiters, who say that they can get me into a class the next month. So I know that later this year, when I'm ready and able I'll have a seat, because they want my money. But am I going to have a seat in 4-5 months after that as an instructor?
Look I have THE worst luck/timing in aviation, period. 9/11, 2008 now COVID all put the breaks on my entry into the field. I had a time building job in the bag post primary flight training, in SLC, doing survey. COVID stopped that. Had my time building job not got canceled in May 2020, who knows where I would be now. My Mormon roommate at "Pilot House" got into the April aerial survey class, he's at Delta now. Timings everything in both life and aviation. I literally have the worst timing. And yes I know that you can't compare your situation to others. Just worried that people staying in their flight instructor seat longer due to the current climate will be yet another of many set backs for me in aviation. Wondering if maybe its a sign and the universe is saying, maybe aviation isn't for you, but a career in law enforcement is, maybe. Or maybe go back to school and get my Psy.d. At my age I don't have the time of someone in their early to middle twenty, or even thirties to just take a relaxed demeanor and say I can wait it out. Sixty-five is comin', if I'm fortunate to live that long in the current state of the world.
I want this career more than anything. It's what I've wanted to do all my life. Don't get me wrong my fall back career hasn't been too bad, with both valuable experience and financially and the prospect of law enforcement is both surprising and encouraging. But its still a side quest, that if things don't turn out well during the main quest, it might become the main quest. I'd think that I'd be somewhat happy... somewhat. But I'd always have the eating regret about "what if."
LE aviation possibilities.
ClearedForOption
Psychiatric Help 5¢
I was told that in my neck of the woods (back when I was teaching) that they want you to typically come up through the ranks and then apply to the Aviation division... I'm sure that would be a fun gig. The 121.5 guys had a couple of LE pilots talk about the lifestyle on their podcast if I remember right.
Of course. And I also still owe you a steak dinner, your choice of the venue, as long as it doesn't involve leaving Phoenix-Scottsdale, you choose! I can bring a flash drive! I'm back in town on Tuesday.
JustinS
Well-Known Member
You just have to go in and get at it. Don’t worry about a job after training. The job will come… I remember telling everyone during COVID in flight training DO NOT STOP flight training. When COVID is over the backlash into a strong hiring market will be insane… I didn’t realize how right I’d be, but I knew it would be good. It still is good. Don’t stop now. Like @derg said, what’s happening now is like a little hiccup where you slow from 110 to 70MPH all of a sudden. The industry is still screaming along.
He’ll fly MORE during the downturns because when it’s starting to end, you’re propositioned for success.
I went to college during a massive recession, furloughs and lots of pilots on the street. No one had hired for years. I kept flying though.
So when things were starting to show signs of improvement, BANG, I was right there.
Just don’t stop. Even if it doesn’t make sense to keep going. You want to put that turkey in the oven well before you’re hungry and 5pm is too late for a 6pm dinner.
I went to college during a massive recession, furloughs and lots of pilots on the street. No one had hired for years. I kept flying though.
So when things were starting to show signs of improvement, BANG, I was right there.
Just don’t stop. Even if it doesn’t make sense to keep going. You want to put that turkey in the oven well before you’re hungry and 5pm is too late for a 6pm dinner.