Considering leaving the profession for good, could use advice

[ppragman]

Easy airplane to fly,

this is true, but this

and really rewarding to fly well.

is wildly debatable. In my experience only sometimes was this even true in regard to pilot remuneration.

You know what a really cool single engine turbine is to fly? The PC12 - especially the /47 series. SN 767 was probably one of the best airplanes I ever got to fly (though not my favorite airplane of all time, that goes either to N34WM or N575P, not quite sure, but those are twins). I was much more comfortable taking the PC12 into some of the places we went than the caravan. Taking the PC12 into a 1600' lodge strip regularly and not totaling an airplane was the crowning achievement of my aviation career.

The caravan is the most boring, vanilla, un-interesting turboprop I ever had the misfortune of being required to unload by myself in a snow storm.

You know how @Boris Badenov feels about the Beech 99? Yeah, that's how I feel about the caravan. It does a job, I guess.

I did really enjoy flying the thing in Prince William Sound though, here's a picture shortly after we brought this one up from the factory in 2014 that I'm fond of. I had a charter for the FAA out to Johnstone Point

for context:

 

[milleR]

this is true, but this

is wildly debatable. In my experience only sometimes was this even true in regard to pilot remuneration.

You know what a really cool single engine turbine is to fly? The PC12 - especially the /47 series. SN 767 was probably one of the best airplanes I ever got to fly (though not my favorite airplane of all time, that goes either to N34WM or N575P, not quite sure, but those are twins). I was much more comfortable taking the PC12 into some of the places we went than the caravan. Taking the PC12 into a 1600' lodge strip regularly and not totaling an airplane was the crowning achievement of my aviation career.

The caravan is the most boring, vanilla, un-interesting turboprop I ever had the misfortune of being required to unload by myself in a snow storm.

You know how @Boris Badenov feels about the Beech 99? Yeah, that's how I feel about the caravan. It does a job, I guess.

I did really enjoy flying the thing in Prince William Sound though, here's a picture shortly after we brought this one up from the factory in 2014 that I'm fond of. I had a charter for the FAA out to Johnstone Point

View attachment 78623

for context:

View attachment 78624

Iirc the /47 got the servo tabs on the ailerons which made a world of difference in handling, almost but not quite king air quality. The /45 was a dump truck, almost as bad as a mu-2 for control feel.

 

[MikeD]

The 600SHP bird is basically all the bad parts of the 207 combined with none of the delightful parts of the sled and with just enough extra HP to make you think you're invincible but not enough to actually save your ass.

These and Chieftains were what my cargo operation out of PHX had, 208A Cargomasters, and the analysis here is on point. I’d moved to these from Piper Lance (a nice bird) and the 207, our shorty 208s were what’s described here in terms of the 207, and just sitting higher off the ground. Never liked them anywhere near ice, whereas the Chieftain didn’t seemingly care about ice. Simple to fly indeed, but our operation managed to have a fatal crash of two of them in two consecutive months in 1990, a few years before I got there. So, couldn’t become complacent with them either. They were a general tool for a general job, like a no-frills work truck pickup truck.

 

[ppragman]

These and Chieftains were what my cargo operation out of PHX had, 208A Cargomasters, and the analysis here is on point. I’d moved to these from Piper Lance (a nice bird) and the 207, our shorty 208s were what’s described here in terms of the 207, and just sitting higher off the ground. Never liked them anywhere near ice, whereas the Chieftain didn’t seemingly care about ice. Simple to fly indeed, but our operation managed to have a fatal crash of two of them in two consecutive months in 1990, a few years before I got there. So, couldn’t become complacent with them either. They were a general tool for a general job, like a no-frills work truck pickup truck.

PA31-350 was a badass airplane. Any airplane where I can get ice on the VGs, it can bridge between VGs and I can somehow just happily fly along without departing controlled flight is just fine by me. The BLR kit bringing up up to 7368lbs was a little bit optimistic with one engine, but it would still climb if it wasn't hot. Very cool airplane.

 

[Roger Roger]

The Caravan is my favorite (non aerobatic, non turbojet) airplane I've ever flown. Solid, reliable, glides like a damned Schweizer when you feather it, hauls a metric effton of fish. You can do 165 to over the river and still be off by charlie. My opinion is that the ergonomics are fantastic, but maybe it's just a body type thing.

I never flew it in icing (Well, as you know, that can be a little ambiguous in AK), but it never let me down.

Easy airplane to fly, and really rewarding to fly well.

I don’t think Pat was complaining about the ergonomics, rather the loading and unloading. The seating in the Van was the most comfortable of anything I’ve flown. And so much elbow and head room. As far as favorites, the PC12 was everything the caravan was but better. I liked flying the Lear 45 better, but the PC12 is amazing. Does 90% plus of the runways and the loads the Van does but can take off out of Hoonah and climb straight to the mid 20s and nonstop to BFI at 280ish true.

 

[Roger Roger]

PA31-350 was a badass airplane. Any airplane where I can get ice on the VGs, it can bridge between VGs and I can somehow just happily fly along without departing controlled flight is just fine by me. The BLR kit bringing up up to 7368lbs was a little bit optimistic with one engine, but it would still climb if it wasn't hot. Very cool airplane.

The PA31 is still the most piloty-fun airplane I’ve ever flown. Mixtures, props, throttles, cowl flaps, fuel selectors, that steampunk gear lever….

 

[Roger Roger]

I don’t think Pat was complaining about the ergonomics, rather the loading and unloading. The seating in the Van was the most comfortable of anything I’ve flown. And so much elbow and head room. As far as favorites, the PC12 was everything the caravan was but better. I liked flying the Lear 45 better, but the PC12 is amazing. Does 90% plus of the runways and the loads the Van does but can take off out of Hoonah and climb straight to the mid 20s and nonstop to BFI at 280ish true.

Also, the NG had fantastic avionics and the autopilot flew like it was on rails.

 

[ppragman]

I don’t think Pat was complaining about the ergonomics, rather the loading and unloading. The seating in the Van was the most comfortable of anything I’ve flown. And so much elbow and head room. As far as favorites, the PC12 was everything the caravan was but better. I liked flying the Lear 45 better, but the PC12 is amazing. Does 90% plus of the runways and the loads the Van does but can take off out of Hoonah and climb straight to the mid 20s and nonstop to BFI at 280ish true.

And how boring it was... it's slow, it's not very maneuverable, it does • in ice, and - contrary to popular belief - it is not really a "STOL" airplane. It's more stol than a lot of airplanes, but if I was going to go in and out of 1500-2000' gravel runways I'd much rather do it in a PC12 if the runway condition is decent to be perfectly honest with you. The van does a bit better if the runway sucks some, but just everything about the PC12 is "good" - especially with the 5-bladed MT prop.

Yes, theoretically you could get the van into a bit shorter of a strip, but I will say that I always had less control in the Van until we installed AoA, if it doesn't yet come from the factory with that, it should. At that point the van was a lot better, but I still prefered the PC12 for that sort of work better.

Fire season 2019, this may be the dumbest charter ever performed, I'll explain over beers:

Oh, just a volcano out the window, nbd.

Did I mention how the Atlee Dodge seats • suck to install and un-install?

The PC12 seats are super easy to get in and out of the airplane, they're astounding rugged given that they have a O2 masks underneath.

Oh, and for STOL stuff, here's me or a coworker (not sure) touching down at an uncharted strip on the Sandy River.

we took the Caravan in there too, but I'm not going to lie, the PC12 was a lot better for that kind of work. Taking 9 people in and out of the lodge felt a lot less sketchy in the PC12 than in the Van...

Also, in the /47 PC12 if I took all the seats out and had a short-ish trip (so that I only ended up with like 1450 or so in fuel - which is still about 3hours if you takeoff and climb high), I could load over 3000 lbs into it legally if memory serves? That's basically 2 navajo loads (about 1700), or 1.5 caravan loads. I'm going to agree with @Roger Roger about the autopilot - the autopilot is awesome, however I'm going to disagree with him about the Apex (at least for AK operations).

If you're on pavement the Apex is fine, but on gravel, you're sucking rocks while it boots up and gets going. If your pilots aren't wind-aware this can be a problem. Then, the Apex airplane is heavier and has less "money making" potential, an FMS is just a lot more complicated for a lot of flying that is a mix of both VFR and IFR stuff. If you have to shoot an approach to one airport and then cancel IFR and break off for another airport regularly (so that you'd have a route already programmed in the unit) there's a lot more to do with the apex than with the garmin units and you'll end up spending a lot more time programming and heads down if you're not careful. It was fun to learn it, but if it were me paying money for the airplane and I was going to use it in Alaska, I'd buy the GTN650/750 combo and the stock PFDs (I think pilatus calls them DUs? I can't remember).

The synthetic vision on the Apex is far superior to what existed in the stock PC12 avionics, but in my last year flying it we had Foreflight dialed up and our standby attitude indicator had synthetic vision, so, it was kind of less of a worry. Even with the old units the AP was rock-• solid.

 

[ppragman]

The PA31 is still the most piloty-fun airplane I’ve ever flown. Mixtures, props, throttles, cowl flaps, fuel selectors, that steampunk gear lever….

The more I look at it in hindsight, the navajo was when I really "made it." I had watched the Navajos I would end up flying fly over my house as a child, and during flight training I had always pointed across the ramp and said, "one day, I'm going to fly one of those." And I did!

One of my favorite pictures from that life:

The navajo is just a fun airplane in general though, and very capable. Just trucking out to Middleton Island (PAMD) to do a standby charter where I explored the island on fourwheelers and tried not to piss off the sea-lions.

Going to some village to the west of the Alaska Range (probably Nikolai?)

there was a period of time in 2014 where I was current and qualified in the PC12, the PA31, and the Caravan, and it wasn't uncommon to fly all 3 on the same day. Was a very fun time in my life.

 

[Boris Badenov]

I liked the /45 fine. But I was taking it in to, at the worst, like 3000ft paved strips in the Lower 48. For that mission the only real complaint I had was that it rides like a freaking railroad-beam in turbulence. Probably unavoidable if you're going to have that much wing on a relatively small aircraft and still go ~270 knots. It was a fine aircraft in every other way, if perhaps not *charismatic* (like an MU-2, *cough*)

 

[🦈💜]

And how boring it was... it's slow, it's not very maneuverable, it does • in ice, and - contrary to popular belief - it is not really a "STOL" airplane.

No, definitely not STOL. It just isn't built for it. The wing isn't built for it. It does ok, but it's brute force.

It's more stol than a lot of airplanes, but if I was going to go in and out of 1500-2000' gravel runways I'd much rather do it in a PC12 if the runway condition is decent to be perfectly honest with you. The van does a bit better if the runway sucks some, but just everything about the PC12 is "good" - especially with the 5-bladed MT prop.

I've never flown a PC-12, but I've only ever heard good things.

Did I mention how the Atlee Dodge seats • suck to install and un-install?

Oh F—. PTSD trigger.

Seriously, though, you said that and I felt all of my knuckles at the same time.

A lot of the rest of your comments are contrasting the van with the PC-12, which I'm not and can't, as I've never flown the pilatapus.

Also, in the /47 PC12 if I took all the seats out and had a short-ish trip (so that I only ended up with like 1450 or so in fuel - which is still about 3hours if you takeoff and climb high), I could load over 3000 lbs into it legally if memory serves?

I have definitely hauled 3,000lbs of fish from HNH on numerous occasions. ("Hoonah one—if you can get it into ground effect, you can get it to Juneau")

 

[🦈💜]

The more I look at it in hindsight, the navajo was when I really "made it." I had watched the Navajos I would end up flying fly over my house as a child, and during flight training I had always pointed across the ramp and said, "one day, I'm going to fly one of those." And I did!

I always wanted to fly Navajos. Well, actually I always wanted to fly Beech 18s and A-26s.

But the Navajo, Beaver, DC-3, Duke, 402, etc all really call to me. Big piston twins are honestly my love.

Never did get to fly one.

 

[ppragman]

I always wanted to fly Navajos. Well, actually I always wanted to fly Beech 18s and A-26s.

But the Navajo, Beaver, DC-3, Duke, 402, etc all really call to me. Big piston twins are honestly my love.

Never did get to fly one.

The PA31-350 was just a doll of an airplane. Busy busy busy if you want to fly it right. You're always fiddling with the throttles, props, and mixtures, you're always adjusting something, you're always tinkering with the props, the OEI performance is utter dog•, so literally every takeoff has to be "game day" because if you don't treat it that way you could die. The BLR kit brings it up from 7000lbs to 7368lbs too - which is a lot of extra weight for that sort of airplane.

It's not as "powerful" as a Beech 99, King Air, or Beech 1900 but it is really fun to fly just because of how busy you are. Planning your descent and power reductions (especially in the winter) so that you can hit the IAP with enough power to fly the approach nicely, but not too slow or not too cold is a bit of a fun mental game, especially when it's -40. Add in some "cool" new avionics and you can kind of build your own sorts of approaches and escape routes so I found I was a lot less worried than the guys I'd known flying the thing /A in the Pacific Northwest.

 

[ppragman]

I liked the /45 fine. But I was taking it in to, at the worst, like 3000ft paved strips in the Lower 48. For that mission the only real complaint I had was that it rides like a freaking railroad-beam in turbulence. Probably unavoidable if you're going to have that much wing on a relatively small aircraft and still go ~270 knots. It was a fine aircraft in every other way, if perhaps not *charismatic* (like an MU-2, *cough*)

That airplane road like crap in turbulence yeah - I would agree. My principle strategy was to just get on top and avoid anything that seemed puffy enough to kick the autopilot off.

 

[Boris Badenov]

That airplane road like crap in turbulence yeah - I would agree. My principle strategy was to just get on top and avoid anything that seemed puffy enough to kick the autopilot off.

Yeah I got it as high as possible (RVSM limited, IIRC) and it was generally fine. But when it hit something unexpected, all of that crap it can haul (and it can) went everywhere. Medicoes weren't all that punctillious about strapping stuff down. Probably still aren't.

 

[ppragman]

Yeah I got it as high as possible (RVSM limited, IIRC) and it was generally fine. But when it hit something unexpected, all of that crap it can haul (and it can) went everywhere. Medicoes weren't all that punctillious about strapping stuff down. Probably still aren't.

This is arguably why Alaska is probably still the best place to fly airplanes for a living and why I kept coming back (even though I tried to leave). Turbulence sucks and I'd rather have mechanical turbulence than goofy convective • any day. Thunderstorms still remain legit scary to me - the memories of the angry thumb of some towering elder god mashing into the undercast still fills me with a sense of dread. No thank you. Give me a world where the tropopause starts around FL300 and I'll happily fly around in it.

But seriously, Alaska is kind of a paradise if you still actually enjoy flying. At FL280 you can get on top of almost everything (except in the summer, for now, ymmv, offer not valid in Fairbanks), the work itself is interesting, you get to go to places that are interesting, you can be home every night, and make a decent middle-class to upper middle-class income before you go off to something more lucrative (if you do).

The characters and people you meet are fun. The equipment is less broke-dick than lower-48 135 freight out of necessity (though not by much). You can be as much or as little a part of the operation as you choose, and the picture outside the window is pretty.

I carried Bison to an Island in the Aleutians once, I flew logistics in support of fire-fighting operations, went to mines, oil rigs, and 5000 year old villages. I've played a meaningful role in scientific research, ethnographic research, and cutting edge aviation safety research. I've explored a shipwreck and learned a word in a dying language on the same day. I got to see the Northern Lights tower over the last continental glacier in North America from FL250. I was 19 and was dumbfounded at the wonder of the natural world. There are wrecked freighters on islands in the Aleutians - I've flown by them at 200kts "beech" combing on empty-legs. I've seen volcanoes erupt out of my window and been a meaningful part of the communities I serve.

There's a dark side too - friends disappearing into the icy waters in the middle of the night, domestic violence in the communities you serve, and a completely shocking level of poverty and privation on display right at home in the good ole USA. And danger, real palpable danger and fear. But if I had it to do all over again I don't think I'd have changed a thing. The risk was worth the memories.

You know that soliloquy that Roy Batty gives at the end of Bladerunner? That tends to be how I feel about my time doing this stuff.

 

[jhugz]

Interesting note: I just finished recurrent, and I feel pretty refreshed. It's actualy interesting how this kinda counted as rest. It also went very smoothly, and borh my sim partner and the instructor recommend that I put in for LCA.

A new lease on enjoying the career, perhaps?

I’d recommend taking on any roles you feel comfortable with in your relative seniority bracket. Doing stuff with Union Work, Company Business, etc. can really break up the schedule for you if you’re struggling with it. It also looks really good on those legacy interviews.

 

[roundout]

Union Work

 

[Maurus]

View attachment 78669

Technically she could try to get ALPA on property. That would definitely be A LOT of work. Of course more work is not the goal. No ALPA days for a union drive.

 

[Hiboglossi]

Technically she could try to get ALPA on property. That would definitely be A LOT of work.

If memory serves, she already tried to a few years ago.