Considering Ameriflight interview; could use some answers/input

[SIUav8er]

My understanding is the pilot flying during the accident was a recent new hire, not an FO, being trained by a training captain.

Oh well, whatever. Obviously many pilots are fans of AMF, while others, such as myself, are quite skeptical. I'm glad you don't feel the pressure I've heard stories about. Good luck to you in the future.

I don't think there is any pressure to do anything that is illegal or unsafe. I have been here 2.5 years and worked at 4 different bases, flown out of 7 bases. I just never saw any pilot pushing... Like others have said, the company is often more cautious about releasing a flight if the wx is questionable than the pilots are. I have been told to wait out weather that was legal to depart into. Unless you've worked here, I don't see how you can make such assumptions.

 

[NickH]

And NickH I will call you out on the training, I think the training is very good. Granted at times it can be more critical than informative. But AMF does not make sloppy pilots.

I will happily clarify that the training captain I had in base were very good. The problem is the Testing in Burbank. 'Climb in a new plane and fly it perfectly' attitude, combined with a Sim Operator with exactly zero aptitude or desire for teaching, and the result is a ten minute tirade of being shouted at and treated like an idiot for switching on the Landing Lights in the wrong order.

The direct result is accidents like Montana. The BUR testing leave pilots so focused and paranoid over silly little stuff that the can miss the bigger picture, and tragically in this case. Is it sloppy? No, but the important stuff is still missed. The point of the Sim is to train pilots in emergency procedures which are more difficult to train in an airplane, and that just isn't happening in BUR. There was no education going on, just criticism, and that's why so many wash out of Sims. They would have better performance from their pilots by having the training captains do the entire thing.

 

[KLB]

I've flown out of just about every base and I've never been pushed. Now they're some crappy things about the gig (like with every gig) but I've never been forced to fly into any thing I was comfortable with. I professional pilot should be able to fly his aircraft comfortably in anything within the limitations of the aircraft though. I will say that.

 

[Rexflyt]

I've been with AMF for a couple of years and I have seen a lot of people flow through my base taking the first upgrade somewhere to get their turbine time, and attitude is what separates those pilots in how successful they will be in the future IMHO. We can all fly at this point but how you interact and carry yourself is what makes you stand out in the long run, I could be wrong but this is just a life lesson not a pilot thing.

AMF, as it has been said many times is a place to go put your time in and learn great skills for whatever your next thing will be. Show up and do your job and be safe, you are not entitled to anything you have to work for it. I am a little older than most of the new pilots that come through and they have mostly never worked a REAL job before flying and some have no idea what hard work is. They complain about 15 hour days but in the working world I have had big projects that had to be done and have worked seven days straight and worked way more than 15 hours in one day, it wasn't the norm but it happens. The 15 hour DUTY day here consists of flying maybe 4 hours max in a day and spending a lot of time doing whatever you want, not at home granted but make the best of what you got.

Also as it has been said before we really don't get pushed into anything flying wise that is unsafe, that mindset is definitely in the past.

I don't post much but people with negative attitudes that know what they are getting into before joining just get me fired up. They are the same people that will complain doing anything at some point. It's called work for a reason.

 

[Inverted]

Nick I will give you that. I haven't experienced it first hand but I have heard similar things from other pilots. The training climate has changed ten fold since the 1.5 years I have been with AMF. In fact When I came here, it was already going through a bunch of changes. Indoc and PA31 training is much better than it was so I'm told.

And jrh no offense but I think your skepticism comes from ignorance about the company.

 

[Polymox]

After a few years are you ready to move on to the next gig? Yes. Will you always look back and say that it maybe wasn't the best job in the world but the experienced you gained was invaluable? Yes. Is it glamorous? No. Will it make you rich? No. Is it a steady paycheck with a very stable company? Yes. Do you work long hours? Yes. Is it rather thankless? Yes. Is the equipment up to date? No. Will you get your necessary time to move on to the next job? Yes. Are the opportunities to move very quickly within the company? Yes. If you put out the effort, will the company go to bat for you? Yes. If you do something really stupid to where you are at fault will they send you on your way? Probably.

You want some negative info, well here you go:

1.) Half the schedules suck, the other half are pretty descent.
2.) I work 6 days a week, 24-26 days/month and the weekends never seem to allow time to recover between weeks, unless I take an extra day off or vacation.
3.) There are some difficult people here to work with: ops, dispatchers, mechanics, and even pilots.

WITH THAT SAID...

1.) The experience I have gained here has been invaluable! The pilot I am today is because of AMF!
2.) I gotten to fly to some pretty cool places and flown some interesting stuff. I have been coast to coast and border to border all within a week at times.
3.) Even though they are short; having weekends, Sundays, and major holidays off has been really nice!
4.) I have been gainfully employed for the last 6 years in some of the most troubled economic times of my generation. (I'm 29). When I have had friends furloughed from airlines and fractionals two, three, four times in the same amount of time.

GR and the rest of the management team must be doing something right to keep those of us here employed. No job is perfect, but at AMF my paycheck has never bounced, I've been paid on time, and I have descent benefits for my family.

Both of these evaluations are fair and accurate in the view of a 4+ year pilot. It's not great and it's not awful. Succeed, learn, and then look for something better after you've got what you need.

 

[SIUav8er]

Isn't it sad that we use factors such as paychecks clearing and the company remaining in business as measurement of a "good" place to work?

 

[KLB]

(A break from the seriousness of the thread)

Well I guess it's the equivelent to a guy dating a gal and saying "she's not the cutest, but atleast I'm getting regular action and haven't contracted any STD's."

 

[Maurus]

Nick I will give you that. I haven't experienced it first hand but I have heard similar things from other pilots. The training climate has changed ten fold since the 1.5 years I have been with AMF. In fact When I came here, it was already going through a bunch of changes. Indoc and PA31 training is much better than it was so I'm told.

So far the metro program is the best training I have received at AMF. Patient sim instructors that actually help you during the sim is a good thing. When I got annoyed that I screwed up (stress based on previous training experience) they would actually give good instruction rather than having a 95% evaluation tone and 5% teach. I find this funny since the Metro sim costs way more money than the FTDs in BUR.

Stepping into a FTD that is merely a cosmetic representation at best and then expecting your first time with new flows in real time to be perfect is a bit overkill. If they changed this in BUR then it is a great step toward a more successful training department. Personally I am curious about completion rates in the chieftain these days. I know 50% was not uncommon in the past.

Overall my experience here is pretty much what I expected. I knew the training was harsh going in and that I may get upgraded to no mans land. So far AMF has treated me well.

• I have been upgraded twice well below insurance mins.
• I have been paid better than regional FO's( first year ~$33K, second year will be over $41k +bonus) so far with a QOL that really isn't as bad as some people make it out to be.
• I have had a few months where I only flew maybe a week and was home by 10AM in the morning on the other weeks. (tons of free time at home)
• I now have my ATP and a type along with a bunch of TPIC.
• I didn't have to move to no mans land for my upgrades.
• My turbine is direct drive.
• Chicks dig beta.

Management did an great job weathering the economic storm. They made a great transition from bank work to package freight with minimal hickups during the recession.

I do have to wonder about the pay. Other than reducing the turbine retention bonus they haven't touched it for nearly a decade.

 

[SA227driver]

(A break from the seriousness of the thread)

Well I guess it's the equivelent to a guy dating a gal and saying "she's not the cutest, but atleast I'm getting regular action and haven't contracted any STD's."

ROTFL! Thanks for the break in the seriousness Kelvin! I needed that. :-D

 

[Douglas]

...

Dude, post more.
Sending you a PM, haven't talked to you since Seattle.

 

[Tommay85]

Isn't it sad that we use factors such as paychecks clearing and the company remaining in business as measurement of a "good" place to work?

Well compared to the regionals, pay checks being correct or even clearing is a problem.(Pinnacolaba) It's pretty clear on that side of the airport that it's more of a crap shoot. Who is good one year with upgrades, pay, and even being around turns on a dime. My friends at Pinnacle won't see the left seat for god knows how long. Worst case, they go under completely randomly and they're back to square one with ZERO PIC time, let alone PIC turbine. At least with freight, you're checking 90% of the application/insurance boxes with most places.

Not directed towards you. Anyone that wants good QOL, go work at a gas station. BEST job I ever had as far as being home every day, partying with friends every night if I wanted to, seeing family when I wanted to, getting time off every single time I wanted to was as a merchandiser for Coca Cola. Aviation isn't this way, never has been, and never will.

 

[Flugzeugfhrer E-man]

I wish I had never left LAS I can't get back now...right now were pretty short in FL, you're smart for moving wherever though I'm trying to commute from FLL now SFB in July to ABQ, so we are looking at moving down here the commute is killer!

Is this so? I like that! I'm dying to stay here so I won't have to start paying rent...the pay is alright to get by on but I'm allergic to new bills.

Today I did the phone interview so everything was pretty much laid out and just the plain truth in my opinion. I liked that she didn't sugar coat anything, not that I'm the starry-eyed type anyways. I am used to long days of waiting around, but at least here it will be in a sweet plane with great potential for more at a later time. If I pass, looks like it'll be CVG and waiting for the chance to return to MIA.

I agree with everyone, myself being the type that usually has something to complain about...jobs and life are what you make of it...find ways to stay happy or find ways to change it! I for one make decent money now, but hate it to death, so I'll be glad if I can move onto a job that AT LEAST has potential for more after my service.

 

[eightballfreight]

Honestly hope it all works out great for you.
The pilot group is full of great guys. Sherri knows how to pick them.

 

[SA227driver]

Is this so? I like that! I'm dying to stay here so I won't have to start paying rent...the pay is alright to get by on but I'm allergic to new bills.

Today I did the phone interview so everything was pretty much laid out and just the plain truth in my opinion. I liked that she didn't sugar coat anything, not that I'm the starry-eyed type anyways. I am used to long days of waiting around, but at least here it will be in a sweet plane with great potential for more at a later time. If I pass, looks like it'll be CVG and waiting for the chance to return to MIA.

I agree with everyone, myself being the type that usually has something to complain about...jobs and life are what you make of it...find ways to stay happy or find ways to change it! I for one make decent money now, but hate it to death, so I'll be glad if I can move onto a job that AT LEAST has potential for more after my service.

He wasn't talking about AMF, he was talking about Allegiant. I'm in the hiring pool over at Allegiant waiting on a class date.

 

[JayAre]

Damn boys and girls that took forever to read up on. Yeah AMF has its goods and bads, but sack up do your time than get out. Maurus are you SLC metro captain?

 

[jrh]

Unless you've worked here, I don't see how you can make such assumptions.

And jrh no offense but I think your skepticism comes from ignorance about the company.

Maybe so.

I've known several people to come and go through AMF over the years. The people who've given me most of my information about the culture of the company were pilots who left the company five years or so ago. Hopefully they were isolated cases, or maybe times have changed.

I also think I'm pretty well informed on what their pay, schedule, training, and accident record is like. I don't have to work there to know those sorts of details. To me, it seems like a ridiculous tradeoff to put up with those things in order to chase turbine time, but maybe that's because I've been fortunate enough to hold great jobs throughout my career. I've seen what the "good life" is like and I can't bring myself to go back.

Or maybe I'm the sucker for building up 4000 hours of piston time at all my great jobs, with no turbine time in sight. I don't know.

I'm not trying to sling mud, I just want to contribute what I can to help people make decisions. I remember back in the day, probably six years ago, there was a lot of talk on JC about how awesome Colgan Airlines was. It was the hot place to go to rack up a bunch of turbine time. They were hiring and upgrading like crazy. Then they had their crash, killed a bunch of people, and details starting coming to light about how it wasn't the greatest place in the world after all. I'm not saying AMF is exactly like Colgan, but sometimes I think JC has a way of presenting a skewed view of some places.

Do whatever you think is best for your career.

 

[z987k]

Stuff

IMO, you're on the right track. Do not compromise or sell yourself short. The second you feel like a $6 hooker when you look at your paycheck you know you're doing it wrong. I firmly believe you don't have to sell yourself short to get ahead, and will end up with a lot more self respect, and respect from others in not furthering the race to the bottom, in the end if you don't. That is if you're a professional that value's their own time. Such things usually are noticeable, and are desirable qualities when looking for the best.

 

[Maurus]

Damn boys and girls that took forever to read up on. Yeah AMF has its goods and bads, but sack up do your time than get out. Maurus are you SLC metro captain?

Nope. I tried to get to SLC though. For some reason they got lower seniority people in there instead.

 

[Inverted]

Or maybe I'm the sucker for building up 4000 hours of piston time at all my great jobs, with no turbine time in sight. I don't know.

This. Which if I remember correctly from your previous posts was single engine time mostly right? Theres nothing wrong with that, but it depends on what you want to do. If you want to fly jets you are years behind the curve, if you are happy flying piston twins doing freight or small charter then awesome.