Considering Ameriflight interview; could use some answers/input

I wish I had never left LAS I can't get back now...right now were pretty short in FL, you're smart for moving wherever though I'm trying to commute from FLL now SFB in July to ABQ, so we are looking at moving down here the commute is killer!
 
NickH said:
I wouldn't say it was a 'good' job. The pay is stupidly low, the QOL is poor, the training was just plain stupid, and they have exactly zero respect for their pilots.
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Yet pilots keep going there. The downward spiral continues.

I think it's interesting how this sort of place is somehow acceptable when we're talking about Beech 99s flying boxes, while airline pilots keep bickering about who's undercutting who, comparing major pay scales to LCCs and one regional comparing itself to another.

A few days ago I was riding the jumpseat of a major's 737. The FO was a former AMFer who spent six years with AMF before coming to this major. The stories he told made me cringe.

And I wasn't cringing at "No kidding, there I was, with two inches of ice on the wings," stories. He was telling stories of, "The flight is legal. We don't care if you're maxed out on your flight and duty times, sick, exhausted, dealing with weather to minimums. If you don't go, you're fired." Another was along the lines of, "You want the day off to go to your friend's funeral, the one who was killed in our latest accident? If you refuse this flight, you're fired."

It sounded like some pretty severe pilot pushing with a constant threat of "Do it or you're fired" hanging over the pilots' heads. A really nasty safety culture. Upper management didn't seem to care the least bit about their pilots as long as boxes kept moving. Anyone ever read stories of pilot pushing with the first air mail pilots back in the day? This is the exact crap unions were formed over.

I don't have a dog in this fight, so maybe I've already said too much. I just wish pilots would consider what their Beech 99 turbine PIC time is REALLY costing them. I'm all for working hard and paying dues, but when it comes to threatening people with their job if they refuse a potentially fatal flight, I draw a line.

But then again, if you can put up with it (and survive) for six years, maybe you'll get to the right seat of a major and it'll all be worth it! :sarcasm:
 
jrh
I think a lot of freight companies were that way 10-15 years ago, however many of them have mellowed out considerably due to increased FAA oversight or perhaps the "owners" who usually push this sort of behavior (atleast in my experience) have less to do in the day to day operation. Who knows.

Speaking only for working for the "bottomfeeder" Martinaire, I was never questioned by the CP when I cancelled a flight due to weather or maintenance and if I asked for days off I usually got them (even if I had no vacation time to use.) I socialized with the Amflight pilots quite a bit and I got similar tales from them -- I think the days of the wild west of freight and getting killed in your 99 are mostly over at the larger outfits, until the 99s just start coming apart due to age anyway.
 
Trust me. I have seen the same manager that has done the pilot pushing in the past back out on sending pilots when it was completely legal and safe to go. "Lets wait for the ceiling to rise"(at the departure airport) and "let the snow blow through" has actually been said when the flights were perfectly safe to go. I have no doubt we would have launched into the stuff in the past. AMF has changed. That said. The "don't screw up" mentality still exists.
 
I flew at the two largest 135 freight companies. Amf isn't even close to AirNet. Different flying but one knew how to treat their employees and the other knew how to exploit their guys under the guise of one day you'll be at major becuause of us so take it.
 
mikecweb said:
I flew at the two largest 135 freight companies. Amf isn't even close to AirNet. Different flying but one knew how to treat their employees and the other knew how to exploit their guys under the guise of one day you'll be at major becuause of us so take it.
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I can see that. Too bad the better of the two is going under.
 
Honestly, I think people just have unrealistic expectations. You KNOW what the pay is going to be. It's not a secret that small towns suck if you're into big cities. California is we-todd-did expensive to live in. You're going to have to move around a lot more in freight than your airline buddies if you want to move up quickly, or just move up i general. You KNOW your schedule more matches that of a 9-5 regular job with "normal people" time off. The only profession that I can think of that work less than pilots are teachers, and they get paid MUCH worse for career earnings.

Freight in general still isn't as bad as the airlines as far as the whining and complaining though. I can't even go onto a thread in this forum with an airline topic. So much drama. So much bitterness towards others and other carriers. So much dick measuring. Insane entitlement mentality. If I were in HR at a major, I'd give regional guys the finger. It's like someone was blowing smoke up everyone's bum. "ZOMG I work HALF the year or less and ONLY make 20-80k!!!!" :rolleyes: :bang: Aviation has never been secretive. Don't think you'll like the beginning of your career, don't come. Don't like it when you get here, gtfo.

Back on topic with our off topic dicussion. I honestly look at places like AMF as a safe and stable fast track to your career stop job. The airlines can change enough that you're stuck somewhere for almost a decade, and I'd say that the vast majority of corporate/charter operators don't like airline pilots if that's where you really want to go(for many of the reasons I stated above) Your attitude and everyday language need to stay in check.(anyone notice a lot of freight guys are in love with the 'F' word? haha) You need to stay professional. None of this not shaving for a week, wearing flip flops, and flying through red radar returns crap. It just makes you look like a moron and a jerk. Most of all, you have to network. Going to your day room is not networking. If you want to switch to 121, stay active on a forum like this and go to networking events. If it turns out they don't want a freight guy(not likely), then go be an FO at a regional for a year and try again. Maybe even date a chief pilot's daughter. :)

I apologize for being so frank, but it's not "bad companies" dragging the industry down, it's people that go to the "bad ones" and then cop an attitude about it, or bad attitudes in general, and it's incredibly annoying to listen to/read on a regular basis. It's no secret in this thread alone that people have moved STRAIGHT from AMF to highly coveted jobs without ever once touching a jet, and they did it twice as fast as a regional pilot. Nothing wrong with venting, but when it's constant, settle down. :D
 
UAL747400 said:
Honestly, I think people just have unrealistic expectations. You KNOW what the pay is going to be. It's not a secret that small towns suck if you're into big cities. California is we-todd-did expensive to live in. You're going to have to move around a lot more in freight than your airline buddies if you want to move up quickly, or just move up i general. You KNOW your schedule more matches that of a 9-5 regular job with "normal people" time off. The only profession that I can think of that work less than pilots are teachers, and they get paid MUCH worse for career earnings.

Freight in general still isn't as bad as the airlines as far as the whining and complaining though. I can't even go onto a thread in this forum with an airline topic. So much drama. So much bitterness towards others and other carriers. So much dick measuring. Insane entitlement mentality. If I were in HR at a major, I'd give regional guys the finger. It's like someone was blowing smoke up everyone's bum. "ZOMG I work HALF the year or less and ONLY make 20-80k!!!!" :rolleyes: :bang: Aviation has never been secretive. Don't think you'll like the beginning of your career, don't come. Don't like it when you get here, gtfo.

Back on topic with our off topic dicussion. I honestly look at places like AMF as a safe and stable fast track to your career stop job. The airlines can change enough that you're stuck somewhere for almost a decade, and I'd say that the vast majority of corporate/charter operators don't like airline pilots if that's where you really want to go(for many of the reasons I stated above) Your attitude and everyday language need to stay in check.(anyone notice a lot of freight guys are in love with the 'F' word? haha) You need to stay professional. None of this not shaving for a week, wearing flip flops, and flying through red radar returns crap. It just makes you look like a moron and a jerk. Most of all, you have to network. Going to your day room is not networking. If you want to switch to 121, stay active on a forum like this and go to networking events. If it turns out they don't want a freight guy(not likely), then go be an FO at a regional for a year and try again. Maybe even date a chief pilot's daughter. :)

I apologize for being so frank, but it's not "bad companies" dragging the industry down, it's people that go to the "bad ones" and then cop an attitude about it, or bad attitudes in general, and it's incredibly annoying to listen to/read on a regular basis. It's no secret in this thread alone that people have moved STRAIGHT from AMF to highly coveted jobs without ever once touching a jet, and they did it twice as fast as a regional pilot. Nothing wrong with venting, but when it's constant, settle down. :D
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Well said!

The problem that AMFers have in getting onto the major or their dreams straight from AMF isn't their skill set. It's usually a networking problem. We have a very small pilots group, between 180-220 pilots at any one time, which makes it hard to network in general with other pilots or to get one pilot in the door somewhere and for others to follow. I agree with UAL747400 you have to strike out on your own to make contacts to succeed in this business. I feel the only reason that I got my interview at AAY was from my AMF contacts who are employed there. They helped me get the interview and I did the rest in convincing the interviewers that I would be a good fit there.
 
SpiraMirabilis said:
I think a lot of freight companies were that way 10-15 years ago, however many of them have mellowed out considerably due to increased FAA oversight or perhaps the "owners" who usually push this sort of behavior (atleast in my experience) have less to do in the day to day operation. Who knows.
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I hope you're right. Most of my discussion with that FO was in reference to the fatal Metroliner crash in 2003 and the fatal Beech 99 crash in 2006, so I'm talking about 6-9 years ago. He was friends with the pilots in both of those accidents. It's always hard to lose a friend in aviation, but I think knowing the background and thinking the corporate culture played a role in each of those accidents made him especially bitter.
 
jrh said:
I hope you're right. Most of my discussion with that FO was in reference to the fatal Metroliner crash in 2003 and the fatal Beech 99 crash in 2006, so I'm talking about 6-9 years ago. He was friends with the pilots in both of those accidents. It's always hard to lose a friend in aviation, but I think knowing the background and thinking the corporate culture played a role in each of those accidents made him especially bitter.
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Was this a United/Continental 737 FO?

Both of those accidents had breakdowns in company procedures, inter-department communication, and pilot error. Yes, they were tragic events that affected a lot of people, but you can't blame one side for everything. Unfortunately, in our industry the buck does stop with us. We are the final link in the accident chain and it's on our shoulders to make good, informed command decisions on how we operate our aircraft.
 
SA227driver said:
Was this a United/Continental 737 FO?
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No.

SA227driver said:
Both of those accidents had breakdowns in company procedures, inter-department communication, and pilot error. You can't blame one side for everything.
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Of course--accidents are always a complicated string of events. I'm not saying it was strictly pilot pushing which brought down those planes. NTSB reports are open to the public. Anyone can read about other factors the investigators found.

Still, this former AMFer and I agreed if a company has a culture of hanging peoples' jobs over their head, always launching when it's legal without so much regard for when it's safe, and that sort of thing, it's only a matter of time until an accident happens.
 
That is a very tragic and unfortunate accident, but I wouldn't blame AMF and their old "cowboy" mentality as some put it.

I will be 100% honest, I have never been forced to depart into anything I wasn't even remotely uncomfortable with. They don't play around when it comes to dispatching aircraft into bad weather conditions. I always hear about how it used to be, but I don't experience that in any capacity.

And NickH I will call you out on the training, I think the training is very good. Granted at times it can be more critical than informative. But AMF does not make sloppy pilots.
 
SA227driver said:
^^^ Only three posts and has been on here for almost three months. Could just be trolling.

You want some negative info, well here you go:

1.) Half the schedules suck, the other half are pretty descent.
2.) I work 6 days a week, 24-26 days/month and the weekends never seem to allow time to recover between weeks, unless I take an extra day off or vacation.
3.) There are some difficult people here to work with: ops, dispatchers, mechanics, and even pilots.

WITH THAT SAID...

1.) The experience I have gained here has been invaluable! The pilot I am today is because of AMF!
2.) I gotten to fly to some pretty cool places and flown some interesting stuff. I have been coast to coast and border to border all within a week at times.
3.) Even though they are short; having weekends, Sundays, and major holidays off has been really nice!
4.) I have been gainfully employed for the last 6 years in some of the most troubled economic times of my generation. (I'm 29). When I have had friends furloughed from airlines and fractionals two, three, four times in the same amount of time.

GR and the rest of the management team must be doing something right to keep those of us here employed. No job is perfect, but at AMF my paycheck has never bounced, I've been paid on time, and I have descent benefits for my family.

The company understands that AMF is a stepping stone in most pilots careers. What they care about is that you do your best, do what's in the best interest of the company, conduct yourself in a professional manner, and honor any/all commitments you enter into with the company and leave with dignity.

Whatever job one is at, you will always have people you can't stand, don't get along with, or don't like. You have set all petty differences aside, put on your big boy pilots shirt and get the job done with the most professional demeanor that you can.

AMF is not for everyone, it may not be the ideal LONG TERM job, but I will never regret my time here when I'm flying heavy iron, and I will miss flying the Metro. ;)
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Brett B, it turns out it was you and John Hazlet (Both management or management pilots.) that were posting all those good things I read about AMF on APC and who were immediately rebuking all the negative factual information.

B, I think you are a good guy and good luck with allegiant air, but with all the politicking BS you put up with, I'm clueless to why you are still a AMF cheerleader.

You say they understand that AMF is a stepping stone, but then why have they put "ineligible for rehire" on pilots PIRA if they leave for the regionals. Good companies don't do that.

My paycheck never bounced, but this is the first company that I've worked with that my paycheck has been repeatedly incorrect. I remember once when they dropped me down to first year pay, almost missed it, that was a knee slapper.

Do you really think I'm trolling, or just trying to discredit me to hire another bunch of suckers.

The funny part, all the people that were fired out of my classes or failed out of training, have better pay and QOL than I do now.
 
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