Comair Crash today (fatal)

[Champcar]

Just let the NTSB do their job, they are damn good at it. All the speculation cracks me up honestly. I guess aircraft only crash directly off the runway they took off from, I forget they have no turning abilities.

 

[surreal1221]

Rip

 

[Dugie8]

BUT...here's a question...that airport has ATC and a control tower there on the premises right? if so, wouldn't the top guys in the control tower seen that they were on the wrong runway and told them to hold vs giving them the ok to takeoff?? typically planes hold before taking off, so you'd have thought someone in ATC would have seen or noticed the error?

I guess I don't understand what you are saying here. I have been given takeoff clearances 3 or more intersections away from the end of the runway, made a rolling takeoff all while the one guy in the tower is reading a clearance to another aircraft.

 

[flyboy04]

BUT...here's a question...that airport has ATC and a control tower there on the premises right? if so, wouldn't the top guys in the control tower seen that they were on the wrong runway and told them to hold vs giving them the ok to takeoff?? typically planes hold before taking off, so you'd have thought someone in ATC would have seen or noticed the error?

In my experience some these airports have one guy working radar, ground, clearance, and tower, all at the same time, i can see how a controller could get so busy he could give a wrong runway assignment or at least be to busy to see the pilot went taxied on the wrong runway. The crash only happened 12 hours ago, so i think its a wise idea not to speculate until all the facts are out which now seems like the only FACT is that it went down less than a mile from the runway.

 

[derg]

Facts:
LEXINGTON, Ky., Aug. 27, 2006 (PRIMEZONE) -- Comair President Don Bornhorst provided the following updates regarding Flight 5191 in a press conference held at 2:30 p.m. today in Lexington, Ky.

-- Comair Flight 5191, a 50-seat Bombardier CRJ100 operating from
Lexington's Blue Grass Airport to Atlanta, was involved in an
accident at approximately 6 a.m. today near the Lexington
airport. The flight was carrying 47 passengers and three crew
members.

-- Comair has confirmed that the following crew members were onboard
Flight 5191: Captain Jeffrey Clay, 35, has been an employee of
Comair since November 1999 and is based at Cincinnati/Northern
Kentucky International Airport; First Officer James Polehinke,
44, has been an employee of Comair since March 2002 and is based
at John F. Kennedy International Airport in New York; Flight
Attendant Kelly Heyer, 27, has been a Comair employee since July
2004 and is based at John F. Kennedy International Airport in New
York. There was one survivor of the accident.

-- Comair continues to contact families of those who were onboard
Flight 5191 and a dedicated toll-free phone line remains
available to family and friends with inquiries about this
accident. The center can be reached at 1-800-801-0088.

-- Employee volunteers of the Comair and Delta Care Team were
dispatched to assist family members and loved ones of passengers
and crew on Comair Flight 5191 shortly after it was learned that
the flight had been involved in an accident. An initial group of
54 team members was dispatched from around the system to
Lexington and Atlanta where the families of passengers were
waiting.

-- Comair is cooperating fully with all authorities who will be
investigating this accident, including the National
Transportation Safety Board (NTSB), the Federal Aviation
Administration (FAA) and federal, local and state law enforcement
agencies. The final determination of the probable cause of the
accident will ultimately by determined by the NTSB.

-- Comair has confirmed the following information about the CRJ100
involved in this accident.
- Aircraft Type: 50-seat Bombardier CRJ100 regional jet
(Model: CL600-2B19)
- Tail number 7472
- Registration number N431CA
- Manufactured in: January 2001
- Delivered to Comair: January 30, 2001
- Airframe Cycles (total number of landings): 12,048
- Airframe Hours (flight time): 14,536.2
- Last overnight maintenance check for aircraft: Lexington
8-26-06

 

[BobDDuck]

A bunch of unrelated things...

The past few times I've flown out of LEX in the early morning they have one guy working c/d, ground, tower and one of the LEX Approach frequencies. It isn't unusual to have to wait a few seconds to call up while they shotgun the mike to an aircraft on another frequency.

22 and 26 are RIGHT next to each other. Especially with the new paving they did the seperation of the two is even less clear. With some good markings it isn't too much of a problem but when I was last there (right after they reopened 22) there weren't many signs up yet. I don't know if they have put up all the signs yet or not.

I think the time delay between the take off clearence (6:05) and time of crash (6:19) is probably actually the time between the clearence and the time crash and rescue got the alert call. Regardless it sounds like ARFF did a heck of a job getting over there and being able to both get the FO out and preserve as much of the aircraft as they did.

While I am very interested in how and why they ended up where they did, I am more interested in why there were almost no survivors. There have been multiple reports that most deaths were fire related and not impact deaths. A low velocity crash (if they did in fact crash right after takeoff) and a mostly intact airframe would lead one to believe that the airframe stayed together during the impact. As an operator of the CRJ I will be interested to know why the plane aparently flashed over after the crash.

 

[MikeD]

While I am very interested in how and why they ended up where they did, I am more interested in why there were almost no survivors. There have been multiple reports that most deaths were fire related and not impact deaths. A low velocity crash (if they did in fact crash right after takeoff) and a mostly intact airframe would lead one to believe that the airframe stayed together during the impact. As an operator of the CRJ I will be interested to know why the plane aparently flashed over after the crash.

Could be any number of reasons. If the fuel cells are breached and the fuel mist/vapors get an ignition source.....anything that can be the initial ignition for the rest of the fuel...not a good scene.

 

[zmiller4]

Yeah so stop watching it. That is what they want. Feed you anything they can to keep you tuned in.

Huh? If you have aspirations to fly professionally, I hope you care what kind of stuff they say about aviation on the news. You have to remember that the public's impression of our industry is largely based on what they see on TV, and that can have an effect its overall health.

This tragedy is obviously terrible for everyone involved and the airline business as a whole, but it doesn't help to have a Fox newsmonkey holding a model of a CRJ in an 80 degree pitch up attitude and say, "this is what happened".

 

[kellwolf]

Yep, I took off out of BTR not too long ago at approximately the same time in the morning. Clearance, ground, tower and initial approach was all the same guy. "Flagship XXXX, cleared for takeof........Flagship XXXX, radar contact, turn left heading XXXX" Odds are LEX has the same set up.

 

[Window_Seat]

the links don't work - A.net might be down due to traffic...however, it is ok to post photos from A.net...:nana2:

Thanks, Kristie!

They worked fine for me right now. Sometimes A.Net loads very slowly, and it might be that many who are interested in this investigation are trying to access those photos.

As far as the news making determinations on the cause of the crash... Nevermind...

Erik.

 

[The L Train]

This tragedy is obviously terrible for everyone involved and the airline business as a whole, but it doesn't help to have a Fox newsmonkey holding a model of a CRJ in an 80 degree pitch up attitude and say, "this is what happened".

That's the guy I was talking about. I am sure it is the same in every industry, that the news portrays them inaccurately. How do you change them?

 

[Sean_S]

NTSB rep just said the plane was lined up on a heading of 260 on take off.

 

[BobDDuck]

Could be any number of reasons. If the fuel cells are breached and the fuel mist/vapors get an ignition source.....anything that can be the initial ignition for the rest of the fuel...not a good scene.

Yet another case for the civilian side to catch up with the military and start putting inhert gas in the tanks. Although I'm not even sure if this would help in a breached tank scenario.

 

[LoadMasterC141]

Huh? If you have aspirations to fly professionally, I hope you care what kind of stuff they say about aviation on the news. You have to remember that the public's impression of our industry is largely based on what they see on TV, and that can have an effect its overall health.

This tragedy is obviously terrible for everyone involved and the airline business as a whole, but it doesn't help to have a Fox newsmonkey holding a model of a CRJ in an 80 degree pitch up attitude and say, "this is what happened".

You are right. It helps to hear what they are saying. I am just so dismayed at their usual cruddy reaction. I was involved in a major part of the largest loss of life air collision in history, and to watch the media "speculation" about it as the information came in made me upset to my stomach. At one point, the media(CNN International) said they were getting reports that the plane I was in, a miltary transport(Though they only knew it was US Air Force plane at that point), had shot the others down. Ughhh. Crazy.

I have so little faith in the media anymore.

I am sorry my comments were so brash and certainly did not mean to in any way trivialize the horrible tragedy that occurred today.

 

[B767]

Just listened to the NTSB breifing and they said that there were numerous references by the pilots and controllers to runway 22 but it did take off on 26.

 

[derg]

That's the guy I was talking about. I am sure it is the same in every industry, that the news portrays them inaccurately. How do you change them?

No idea.

I've been putting food on my table by flying airplanes since 1993 but I still don't consider myself an "expert". But the newchannels have all of their "airline experts" but never really say what truly qualifies them.

But the news isn't about conveying factual information, they're there to entertain and to capture you long enough to interface with their advertisers. I haven't even watched the news today because I can guarantee I'll hear something that'll raise my blood pressure 30 points.

 

[MikeD]

Yet another case for the civilian side to catch up with the military and start putting inhert gas in the tanks. Although I'm not even sure if this would help in a breached tank scenario.

It depends. We use Halon to inert our tanks in the event of penetration from small arms. Now a missile that blows a portion of the wing/fuselage, it's anyone's guess....all depends.

 

[kellwolf]

I think this was discussed after the TWA 800 accident. There are companies that have the option available, but I think the weight of the gasses to be used were too heavy to be economically feasible.

 

[flyTotheSky]

This may be the final low blow to Comair. Could it get even worse? Delta last week put all their regional flying up to bid and Comair was on the chopping block...now this....

Do you guys think the lawsuits alone will take down the airline?

My heart goes out to all who lost their lives. RIP

Such a sad day for commercial aviation :whatever:

 

[Malko]

Just let the NTSB do their job, they are damn good at it. All the speculation cracks me up honestly. I guess aircraft only crash directly off the runway they took off from, I forget they have no turning abilities.

Taken from AP article about 5:47 pm:
Jeffrey McMurray, Associated Press
Last update: August 27, 2006 – 5:47 PM

....Preliminary data from the Comair Flight 5191's data records and the damage at the scene indicate the plane took off from Blue Grass Airport's shortest runway, a 3,500-foot-long strip not intended for commercial flights, National Transportation Safety Board member Debbie Hersmann said.