Colgan showing the Q400

[Firebird2XC]

I'm not getting into a pissing match here bro, but I work for colgan also. I know the deal. You and Airdale walked into this company at the wrong time. The company went from a sleepy mom and pop job that was a pretty cool place to work, to a wanna be big player overnight. You got stuck on an airframe that was closing bases and being phased out. The hondo guys are getting beat down daily. I look at the open time and all I see hondo time

...
...
I'm glad that you and Airdale and a host of others got out and found a better position. That new perspective along with the lessons learned here goes a long way in educating those who are following your footsteps.

Po-tay-to, po-tah-to.

Our methods differ, but our end goals are one in the same. Time will tell.

 

[JBUCREW]

I hear there is going to be a big shake up in your Airways flying... Who knows what the master minds will come up with down in Memphis, buts thats the word on the street........


Pinnacle Airlines Puts 4Q EPS 12c-15c Below 45c Analyst View
5:59 PM EST February 12, 2008


DOW JONES NEWSWIRES

Pinnacle Airlines Corp. (PNCL) on Tuesday said it expects 2007 fourth-quarter net income of 30 cents to 33 cents a share, below analyst consensus estimates of 45 cents a share, mainly due to lower-than-expected earnings from its Colgan Air Inc. unit.
The Memphis regional passenger carrier said it expects Colgan Air will report a 2007 fourth-quarter operating loss of $4 million to $5 million, according to a Securities and Exchange Commission filing.
Also, Pinnacle Airlines said Colgan's results were also hurt by startup costs related to its new Q400 aircraft operations that began Feb. 4,
Pinnacle Airlines said it's taking "immediate" steps to improve Colgan's financial performance in future periods.
The steps include the introduction of Q400 operations under Colgan's capacity purchase agreement with Continental Airlines Inc. (CAL), the SEC filing said.
Pinnacle Airlines also said it expects to improve Colgan's financial performance in its prorate operations by transitioning some underperforming markets operated as US Airways Express in Pittsburgh to the United Express brand at Washington/Dulles International Airport during the 2008 first quarter, moving some maintenance functions to Dulles Airport and other initiatives that are designed to reduce Colgan's operating costs.
The company said it will also evaluate the long-term viability of Colgan's markets, including markets where Colgan receives "Essential Air Service" subsidies from the U.S. federal government, to determine if each market can achieve long-term sustainable profitability in light of the significantly increased fuel costs.

 

[kellwolf]

I will say this one last time - IM NEW to the airlines and completely understand I have MUCH to learn. Educate me! Dont insult me! There are quite a few senior pilots AT COLGAN that tell me soooo much different than what I here from union members. SO I have nothing else to go on unless I can gather correct information from elsewhere - information, not BS and whining! Cant say Im gonna seek much info from here much more. Seems to have become very narrow minded site.

Guys, listen here. Seggy and I are trying to keep this civil and do just what she's asking: educate her. I'm a firm believer of getting more people on your side by listening and answering questions rather than shouting Velo-esque about how everyone is bringing us down.

Seggs, I thought Commutair got a union, but the contract wasn't done yet? Skywest doesn't have a union b/c the company keeps running a good ad campaign. Colgan doesn't have a union due to pure apathy. I have a feeling the union drive will be much more successful the next time around. Skybus, Virgin America and Allegiant don't have unions b/c people are just happy to not be at a regional anymore. jetBlue doesn't have a union (yet, they're in the midst of organizing) for essentially the same reason mentioned for Skywest. I doubt you'll see ALPA at jetBlue, though. Most of the people over there came from ALPA carriers that got hosed in bankruptcy or other methods. Unfortunately, they turn the blame on ALPA rather than attempt to understand how the process and the RLA works.

 

[kellwolf]

Pinnacle Airlines said it's taking "immediate" steps to improve Colgan's financial performance in future periods.
The steps include the introduction of Q400 operations under Colgan's capacity purchase agreement with Continental Airlines Inc. (CAL), the SEC filing said.
Pinnacle Airlines also said it expects to improve Colgan's financial performance in its prorate operations by transitioning some underperforming markets operated as US Airways Express in Pittsburgh to the United Express brand at Washington/Dulles International Airport during the 2008 first quarter, moving some maintenance functions to Dulles Airport and other initiatives that are designed to reduce Colgan's operating costs.

Translation: bye bye outstation basing. It costs too much in ferrying a plane from one place to another. With hubs, all your MX is in a central location. No need to ferry airplanes BACK from an outstation if they're already there.

PCL just got downgraded from "hold" to "sell" anyway. I'm already checking the mailbox for the FedEx letter saying "Sign this contract or we're gonna lose all our flying!!!"

 

[aviator79416]

I might as well jump in this while its going. I got to Manassas, VA today and start my training tomorrow for the Q400. I just finished up the very first pilot development program in Houston, and really enjoyed it. (I had 415TT and 237 Multi) Everyone was very nice, and it was basically just to check that you had solid instrument skills and a good scan. After I completed my checkride, they asked if I wanted the Q or the 1900. My dad is a pilot (CAL), and he knows damn well what happens when a plane is getting phased out, so I decided to take his advice and get on the Q. I wanted the Saab, but that's just the way it goes. I would like to hear objective statements on the union and the Q, not bashes. Don't tell me I made a mistake by joining Colgan or any of that stuff, I did my research along with my dad and many pilot friends. I just want to hear unbiased info on unions and stuff like that. Just like other new hires, I don't have an opinion yet. I can tell you that my dad is very much against unions, but would favor one that set up a National Seniority List (I know it won't ever happen). I watched my uncle go from captain for TWA to right seat of a MD-82 for American at age 55 when they went under.

 

[OldTownPilot]

.....My dad is a pilot (CAL), ......I can tell you that my dad is very much against unions.......

Lemme guess, Class of 83?

 

[aviator79416]

Lemme guess, Class of 83?

I don't know I will have to get back to you on that after I ask him. I know that he flew F-4's in Nam, then F-101's in the guard, and got on with TWA sometime in the early to Mid 80's. But point being, he will say that he hates the unions, and others will say that they love it. It's hard to deny that they don't protect many rights, and give u additional rights that a non union carrier such as colgan wouldn't have.

 

[H46Bubba]

I don't know I will have to get back to you on that after I ask him. I know that he flew F-4's in Nam, then F-101's in the guard, and got on with TWA sometime in the early to Mid 80's. But point being, he will say that he hates the unions, and others will say that they love it. It's hard to deny that they don't protect many rights, and give u additional rights that a non union carrier such as colgan wouldn't have.

Old Town was asking about your pops at CAL.

 

[OldTownPilot]

I'll take that as a yes.

I don't give a crap about his Mil career if he crossed.

Scab.

 

[Airdale]

Boy, isn't this the pot calling the kettle black. When did you go off and become so wise and righteous? It must have been during your short stint of getting abused daily by colgan, the bottom feeding devil. THe same devil that gave you enough experience to leave and work somewhere else, lol.

I gotta say, this site has changed a lot in last 2 or 3 years. Some of the threads recently hold the same tone as the stuff on the "other site." Nothing but hate and bickering, everyone all the sudden becoming experts, doom and gloom, my company is better than yours, your company is worse than mine, blah blah blah. 3 years ago a lot of us were still cfi's swapping stories and hoping to get hired somewhere, and now in the "airline pilot" forum at least, it's all negative. As soon as someone starts a thread in the Airline pilot forum, it gets negative responses. I don't even think gojet and mesa and gulfstream get bashed as much as colgan here lately, and I'm sure somebody with 6 months of "industry" experience will follow my post and tell me all about it. I'm ducking out of this forum for a while and I'll lurk somewhere else on JC that's a little more positive and upbeat. C-ya

Dingo! Dango! Dongo!

You're right, maybe I came off a little harsh. Maybe that was just a bit of bitterness I still have towards the failed ALPA drive and reading her post just rubbed salt in a healing wound. Especially since I would like to see the Beech guys that I flew with either get what they deserve (job at a Major) or at least get Union protection until that happens.

I was pro-Union at Colgan from day one, thanks to Seggy educating me before I even showed up for class. I even told him that he had my support 100% even though I had little knowledge or experience in that area. I didn't plan on going to Colgan for a year and leaving. I was hoping to either upgrade on the mighty Beech or at least get a Q transition. When I heard the ALPA drive failed in August, I about threw up. Things just rolled down hill from there.

On a lighter note, today we received a brief from our Teamsters Union Rep. The dues are a bit higher then I expected, but once we started going through the contract I was quickly smiling. I had my doubts about Teamsters, but after reading our contract rules, I was pretty happy (except the pay, but they're working on that). 14hr Duty days, no Junior manning and a commuter clause are just a few things that will be nice working under. I still wish we were ALPA though. After doing a lot of research and study on ALPA during the Colgan drive, I would rather be under their protection. But Teamsters is better then nothing.

 

[sigpilot]

When I heard the ALPA drive failed in August, I about threw up.

deja vu

 

[Seggy]

I'm going to be in Key West for the next couple of days, so the final thing I want to say in this thread for a while is ALPA is at fault here as well.

They need to do a MUCH better job of educating the younger generation of pilots why they are so important. Then we won't lose organizing drives by four votes.

Have a nice weekend!

 

[JBUCREW]

I might as well jump in this while its going. I got to Manassas, VA today and start my training tomorrow for the Q400. I just finished up the very first pilot development program in Houston, and really enjoyed it. (I had 415TT and 237 Multi) Everyone was very nice, and it was basically just to check that you had solid instrument skills and a good scan. After I completed my checkride, they asked if I wanted the Q or the 1900. My dad is a pilot (CAL), and he knows damn well what happens when a plane is getting phased out, so I decided to take his advice and get on the Q. I wanted the Saab, but that's just the way it goes. I would like to hear objective statements on the union and the Q, not bashes. Don't tell me I made a mistake by joining Colgan or any of that stuff, I did my research along with my dad and many pilot friends. I just want to hear unbiased info on unions and stuff like that. Just like other new hires, I don't have an opinion yet. I can tell you that my dad is very much against unions, but would favor one that set up a National Seniority List (I know it won't ever happen). I watched my uncle go from captain for TWA to right seat of a MD-82 for American at age 55 when they went under.

Here is some objective statements about the Q and unions...
You are getting Q400 aircraft from the fruits of the Pinnacle Airlines pilots labors... If Colgan wasnt bought by Pinnacle there wouldnt be any Q400's at all. Now since you have no union there you flying the Q400's at one of if not the lowest pay in the industry, and from many of the people that I know that work there you have no work rules at all and they can do anything they want with you. Now if your ok with that then continue to fly at Colgan in your nice big turbo-prop.
Again to the guys that voted pro-union at Colgan...good for you and do it again in AUG 08.
As far the more Q's coming on your property hopefully when we win the Scope grievance it will take care of that.
Now I'm not against Colgan, Im just dont like the attitude of the guys who are saying to the Pinnacle pilots to leave us alone and stop picketing at our Q events. We bought those Q's for you, and we are picketing against Pinnacle Holdings ie Colgan and Pinnacle airlines managment, not Colgan pilots.

 

[dingo222]

Here is some objective statements about the Q and unions...
You are getting Q400 aircraft from the fruits of the Pinnacle Airlines pilots labors... If Colgan wasnt bought by Pinnacle there wouldnt be any Q400's at all. Now since you have no union there you flying the Q400's at one of if not the lowest pay in the industry, and from many of the people that I know that work there you have no work rules at all and they can do anything they want with you. Now if your ok with that then continue to fly at Colgan in your nice big turbo-prop.
Again to the guys that voted pro-union at Colgan...good for you and do it again in AUG 08.
As far the more Q's coming on your property hopefully when we win the Scope grievance it will take care of that.
Now I'm not against Colgan, Im just dont like the attitude of the guys who are saying to the Pinnacle pilots to leave us alone and stop picketing at our Q events. We bought those Q's for you, and we are picketing against Pinnacle Holdings ie Colgan and Pinnacle airlines managment, not Colgan pilots.

well said. It's not against us as a pilot group. I'm hoping that the scope grievance goes through soon actually. COrrect me if i'm wrong, but wouldnt you or us as a new pilot group have to vote on a payrate for the q400 if we merged? I know the 900 pay rate was imposed, but that won't last long before arbitration. I'm glad that we only have 2 or those q400's right now at that rate. It could be worse, we could have 10 like lynx flying them for 50 bucks and hour, lol. I dont know whats in the contract at pncl, but i dont think you guys have a rate for 70 seat t-prop.

 

[kellwolf]

Now I'm not against Colgan, Im just dont like the attitude of the guys who are saying to the Pinnacle pilots to leave us alone and stop picketing at our Q events. We bought those Q's for you, and we are picketing against Pinnacle Holdings ie Colgan and Pinnacle airlines managment, not Colgan pilots.

That just needed to be repeated. You see PCL pilots picketing a Colgan event, it is NOT, repeat, NOT against the Colgan pilots. We're speaking out about management (ie Pinnacle Corp, the holding company that owns both PCL and Colgan) shuffling money gained from the blood sweat and tears of Pinnacle pilots over to Colgan to grow them at our expense. I really couldn't care less if we fly the Qs or not. I just want a) management to honor the contract we already have and b) management to stop playing games and negotiate fairly for a new contract. Buddy Casey will no doubt send out more memos to Colgan pilots in order to drive a wedge b/w the pilot groups. This benefits no one but management. I don't want your planes, and I CERTAINLY don't want Colgan pilots stapled below me on a seniority list. But I'm not gonna just roll over when my contractual rights are being urinated on by an ethically-challenged management team.

 

[kellwolf]

well said. It's not against us as a pilot group. I'm hoping that the scope grievance goes through soon actually. COrrect me if i'm wrong, but wouldnt you or us as a new pilot group have to vote on a payrate for the q400 if we merged?

Yep. Along with just about every other work rule.

I know the 900 pay rate was imposed, but that won't last long before arbitration.

I'm betting you're gonna see another ALPA lawsuit off of that one. Management has been having trouble getting people to bid the 900 in ATL. FOs can get it out of training, and I could hold it as a CA before I could hold MEM. One of the main reasons was b/c the pay is so terrible. So, they "decided" to impose the 5% raise for CAs. FOs still get nada. It's still abysmal compared to other 900 operators out there, but they'll tell you it's "industry standard" until they're blue in the face. Now, what they didn't realize is that by instituting this pay raise, they've changed the "status quo" of our original CBA. They can't just go about setting pay rates without union approval. They can negotiate a Letter Of Agreement to ammend the contract, but they CANNOT just toss a rate out there. Doing so changes the contract. The FO bonuses was a grey area. The ignoring of our "scheduling" section of the contract is a grey area b/c of our PBS LOA. This one is pretty damn cut and dry, though. They set new payrates without union input in order to attract people to the plane. If they did this, why didn't they just go with the new FO payrates they wanted last year? After all, they cried the union wouldn't let them and they couldn't set them on their own b/c that would be illegal. Yet, somehow this isn't illegal. Sorta like how they need to get approval from ALPA for a new carrier that's non-union, but they can go out and buy Colgan and not need approval since they're already established. Sorry guys. Both are a violation of the scope clause unless we agree to it.

I dont know whats in the contract at pncl, but i dont think you guys have a rate for 70 seat t-prop.

We've got a 35 seat TP rate and a 59 seat jet rate. That's all we've got as of right now.

 

[SmitteyB]

This thread is looking like something that would be over at APC, except with less bashing.

Aviator- at 400+ HRS, you shouldn't be flying the Q400, sorry! Can't blame you for not wanting to go to the 1900, though. It's a dead end in terms of a future.

A fee complaints about Colgan...AND why we need a union

It's February 15th and we haven't even seen the lines for March. Which means they won't be ready until the 21/22 due on the 25....and wont be awarded until 29th. This is REDICULOUS.

Scheduling's new policy- You can only trade a pairing for an IDENTICAL pairing. For instance. Which means no morning to night trades, no weekend to weekday trades.


With that being said...What happens if (hopefully when) the PNCL pilots win the abritration for the Q400? Must the flying cease?

 

[BE19Pilot]

Hello,
Best of luck to the Colgan guys and gals come July. Hopefully, as Seggy mentioned their will be a more concentrated effort to educate the new-hires on travelling the woeful road of a non-union airline in today's climate. The flying at CJC in the 1900 by far has been the high-point of my flying career, both military and civilian. Outside of the flying itself, Colgan Air was a very difficult place to work in the last few months. Schedules were terrible, and no sign of improving on the horizon. Even with my present set of circumstances I was looking to leave. Fortunately, I have a really good situation here flying a King Air F-90 and a Cessna T-210 for a real estate/auctioneering firm in Roanoke, VA.
I see 2008 as a year of transition for the regional airline industry and I also believe that this transition is not going to be without pain. Depending on where you happen to be employed will directly impact the "pain" factor. I also firmly believe that the regional airline industry will continue to be the bottom tier for professional pilots until ALPA is able to really make some headway on forming a national seniority list. This agenda item was mentioned at the last small turbojet operators meeting in D.C. last January. Much work needs to be accomplished to make this happen. A national union/national seniority list and a paradigm change in how ALPA operates is the only way this scenario will work.

Regards,

Scott F.
former CJC Beech 1900 captain/check airman

 

[dingo222]

This thread is looking like something that would be over at APC, except with less bashing.

Agreed

It's February 15th and we haven't even seen the lines for March. Which means they won't be ready until the 21/22 due on the 25....and wont be awarded until 29th. This is REDICULOUS.


Scheduling's new policy- You can only trade a pairing for an IDENTICAL pairing. For instance. Which means no morning to night trades, no weekend to weekday trades.

If we have the bids by the 29th, I'll crap a golden egg with Willie Wonka's face on it. Every month it's a new excuse why they can't get the bids out on time. Again, I don't have a life to plan or anything. THat's ok; that's why I have sick days

Sched's new policy? God, what do you expect??? They are working hard, working saturday's, working nights, it's hard work......... remember that SNL skit? Sched's new policy huh? great, good luck with the trades. I have a new policy also, it's called SICK. They will wish I did the trade instead, lol.

 

[Rocketman99]

Scheduling's new policy- You can only trade a pairing for an IDENTICAL pairing. For instance. Which means no morning to night trades, no weekend to weekday trades.

WTFO?!?!? Really?