Colgan showing the Q400

[Snuggle]

No need to call her a ''kid'' or put her down. She asked a question about unions because she stated she did not know the benefits of a union and how it would help her. Why put someone down or attack them when you can share your opinion in a way that actually promotes learning??

 

[Firebird2XC]

No need to call her a ''kid'' or put her down. She asked a question about unions because she stated she did not know the benefits of a union and how it would help her. Why put someone down or attack them when you can share your opinion in a way that actually promotes learning??

It wasn't a put down. I call everybody 'kid'.

She didn't ask a question with the intent of knowledge- it was rhetorical and not really that civil.

 

[Snuggle]

Blazingly ignorant statements like this just reinforce the concept of what a kool-aid drinker you really are.

Well how does this help? Maybe shes new to this industry and doesn't know how a union would benefit her, read her post. Why did you take the job with Colgan in the first place? When you were new how did you know any better? Just try and understand where shes coming from, she asked a question because she said she really didn't know much about the subject.

 

[Firebird2XC]

Boy, isn't this the pot calling the kettle black. When did you go off and become so wise and righteous? It must have been during your short stint of getting abused daily by colgan, the bottom feeding devil. THe same devil that gave you enough experience to leave and work somewhere else, lol.

I gotta say, this site has changed a lot in last 2 or 3 years. Some of the threads recently hold the same tone as the stuff on the "other site." Nothing but hate and bickering, everyone all the sudden becoming experts, doom and gloom, my company is better than yours, your company is worse than mine, blah blah blah. 3 years ago a lot of us were still cfi's swapping stories and hoping to get hired somewhere, and now in the "airline pilot" forum at least, it's all negative. As soon as someone starts a thread in the Airline pilot forum, it gets negative responses. I don't even think gojet and mesa and gulfstream get bashed as much as colgan here lately, and I'm sure somebody with 6 months of "industry" experience will follow my post and tell me all about it. I'm ducking out of this forum for a while and I'll lurk somewhere else on JC that's a little more positive and upbeat. C-ya

Airdale and I have the viewpoints we do because:

1) We used to work at Colgan, and were DRIVEN TO QUIT.

2) We used to sound JUST LIKE LOFLYN. Somebody adjusted our attitude along the way, and we're better for it. We're passing along the info.

3) Having a strong opinion is not 'hate'. Stop hiding behind buzzwords.

4) Playing the "and you got the experience to go somewhere else" card. Colgan didn't hire any of us to do us a favor. They did it to further their business, period. Anybody who believes they were 'doing us a favor' believes that 'Colgan Family' BS that sold out the union drive, too. Gimme a break! When the 'Family' made it clear that they were gonna slap us around arbitrarily as they felt suited, it became clear what kind of family we were really in. Tony Soprano would have been amused.

Given that, it's bad business to work for a place like that. Best to pack up shop and leave. Remaining only prove that you condone the behavior.

 

[Firebird2XC]

Well how does this help? Maybe shes new to this industry and doesn't know how a union would benefit her, read her post. Why did you take the job with Colgan in the first place? When you were new how did you know any better? Just try and understand where shes coming from, she asked a question because she said she really didn't know much about the subject.

If she's gonna be belligerent, don't expect me to sit silently by.

I was certainly in no better position and when I came aboard, and those that came before me made sure I toed the line and got up to speed and quick.

You want to treat her as an equal? Let her defend her own position.

 

[Loflyn]

Blazingly ignorant statements like this just reinforce the concept of what a kool-aid drinker you really are.

Ouch! Easy with the name calling! I said earlier that I am new to this and Im merely learning about airlines and unions. You'd think I was calling your mother names or something. Opinions are like ***holes, everyone has one!

So, may I seek more information by asking a simple question or will you hang me for it?! What other companies besides Colgan are non-union?

 

[Seggy]

So, may I seek more information by asking a simple question or will you hang me for it?! What other companies besides Colgan are non-union?

Over 90% of airlines are unionized.

 

[Loflyn]

Boy, isn't this the pot calling the kettle black. When did you go off and become so wise and righteous? It must have been during your short stint of getting abused daily by colgan, the bottom feeding devil. THe same devil that gave you enough experience to leave and work somewhere else, lol.

I gotta say, this site has changed a lot in last 2 or 3 years. Some of the threads recently hold the same tone as the stuff on the "other site." Nothing but hate and bickering, everyone all the sudden becoming experts, doom and gloom, my company is better than yours, your company is worse than mine, blah blah blah. 3 years ago a lot of us were still cfi's swapping stories and hoping to get hired somewhere, and now in the "airline pilot" forum at least, it's all negative. As soon as someone starts a thread in the Airline pilot forum, it gets negative responses. I don't even think gojet and mesa and gulfstream get bashed as much as colgan here lately, and I'm sure somebody with 6 months of "industry" experience will follow my post and tell me all about it. I'm ducking out of this forum for a while and I'll lurk somewhere else on JC that's a little more positive and upbeat. C-ya

Thanks for that! This has turned into a "piss match" rather than a polite conversation. Apparently everyone thought my questions were meant to attack ALPA and its members. I will say this one last time - IM NEW to the airlines and completely understand I have MUCH to learn. Educate me! Dont insult me! There are quite a few senior pilots AT COLGAN that tell me soooo much different than what I here from union members. SO I have nothing else to go on unless I can gather correct information from elsewhere - information, not BS and whining! Cant say Im gonna seek much info from here much more. Seems to have become very narrow minded site.

 

[Loflyn]

Over 90% of airlines are unionized.

So please tell me WHO isnt and why arent they?

 

[Loflyn]

Well how does this help? Maybe shes new to this industry and doesn't know how a union would benefit her, read her post. Why did you take the job with Colgan in the first place? When you were new how did you know any better? Just try and understand where shes coming from, she asked a question because she said she really didn't know much about the subject.

:yeahthat:

 

[Loflyn]

Blazingly ignorant statements like this just reinforce the concept of what a kool-aid drinker you really are.

Re-reading this statement makes me wonder about union members and their attitudes. Will I become this person?! Not good advertising for ALPA. Please convince me with the facts and not your attitude. Thanks

 

[Seggy]

So please tell me WHO isnt and why arent they?

Skywest, Commutair, Skybus, Jetblue, Allegiant, Virgin America, and Colgan aren't. That is about it. No idea why they aren't.

Bottom line is we need a union here. Badly. They are changing things daily, we need protection.

 

[Loflyn]

Skywest, Commutair, Skybus, Jetblue, Allegiant, Virgin America, and Colgan aren't. That is about it. No idea why they aren't.

Bottom line is we need a union here. Badly. They are changing things daily, we need protection.

Do all those companies have this same internal bickering and disgruntled employees? I know 2 pilots at Jetblue and have never heard anything like what I hear here at Colgan. Any of these pilots on the forum with any info?

 

[dingo222]

we need protection.

jimmy wrap that sucka!

 

[Firebird2XC]

Blazingly ignorant statements like this just reinforce the concept of what a kool-aid drinker you really are.

Ouch! Easy with the name calling! I said earlier that I am new to this and Im merely learning about airlines and unions. You'd think I was calling your mother names or something. Opinions are like ***holes, everyone has one!

So, may I seek more information by asking a simple question or will you hang me for it?! What other companies besides Colgan are non-union?

Skywest, for one. The immediate concern with Colgan's non-union status is that it's being used to whipsaw the Pinnacle pilot group. Management successfully used "Me first" sentiment to drive doubt into the Colgan pilot mentality in reference to unions.

Now, money that the labors of PCL pilots have earned is being used to finance growth at Colgan Air. Meanwhile, PCL pilots still get no respect and at best, lip service from management.

As the saying goes, a chain is only as strong as the weakest link. One company's pilots saying "Eh, who cares? We're only here a short time.." sets the bar lower and gives the rest of industry management groups a precedent to follow.

Not to mention other things- my current company's annual cost of living pay adjustment (a contract item) is based on 'industry average' or a 1 point something percent minimum. It states that 'bankruptcy concession rates' are not to be used for that calculation. Meanwhile, management did just that, and avoided raising pay more than the bare minimum required.

We all toe the line. You see the movie '300'? If not for that one guy that showed the enemy the backdoor, they might've had a chance. Extreme metaphor, yes, but same concept.

 

[Firebird2XC]

Re-reading this statement makes me wonder about union members and their attitudes. Will I become this person?! Not good advertising for ALPA. Please convince me with the facts and not your attitude. Thanks

For what it's worth- for the first few months, especially the first airline gig, we're ALL kool-aid drinkers.

I was. Airdale was. I'd even venture that Seggy was, to some point.

You'll learn why we see things the way we do. You might not agree, or go the same way with it. You will, regardless, learn that in the long run any hourly-wage labor group CAN NOT simply trust management at their word. Maybe when things are good, it'll be easy enough, but when the chips are down us hourly wage employees will take it in the shorts.

Of the four pilots hired into the 1900 in my newhire class (one of while was Airdale) a total of three of us have quit. I haven't talked to the fourth in a while. He might've by now, too.

 

[dingo222]

Airdale and I have the viewpoints we do because:

1) We used to work at Colgan, and were DRIVEN TO QUIT.

2) We used to sound JUST LIKE LOFLYN. Somebody adjusted our attitude along the way, and we're better for it. We're passing along the info.

3) Having a strong opinion is not 'hate'. Stop hiding behind buzzwords.

4) Playing the "and you got the experience to go somewhere else" card. Colgan didn't hire any of us to do us a favor. They did it to further their business, period. Anybody who believes they were 'doing us a favor' believes that 'Colgan Family' BS that sold out the union drive, too. Gimme a break! When the 'Family' made it clear that they were gonna slap us around arbitrarily as they felt suited, it became clear what kind of family we were really in. Tony Soprano would have been amused.

Given that, it's bad business to work for a place like that. Best to pack up shop and leave. Remaining only prove that you condone the behavior.

I'm not getting into a pissing match here bro, but I work for colgan also. I know the deal. You and Airdale walked into this company at the wrong time. The company went from a sleepy mom and pop job that was a pretty cool place to work, to a wanna be big player overnight. You got stuck on an airframe that was closing bases and being phased out. The hondo guys are getting beat down daily. I look at the open time and all I see hondo time. Colgan went from 8 or 9 1900 bases down to like 3 overnight. Nobody said colgan did you a favor. The hired you because they needed a warm body to keep the 1900's flying. Plain and simple. Life on the saab is different, and life on the saab in IAH is another world all together. It's just like the army, same MOS but change units and the world changes drastically. Some are better, some are worse.

The post was meant to help educate noobs, not shut the door in their face. This site is here to help educate people. It's like the new E-3 that shows up at the unit a week before a deployment. You have 2 choices. Shum the new kid and hope they figure it out on their own, or take them under your wing, show them why they are wrong and teach them to do things the way they should be done. What does that noob do 3 years later when they come out of PLDC or BNCOC? Teach the next new noob to do the same. Teach snakes to kill other snakes. This little mom and pop company changed overnight and now people are getting run over while they try and figure out what is going on. It's not a new thing. PCL exploded in the 90's, xjet came to be in 2001ish when it changed from flying emb-120's and atr's to jets, Republic went through growing pains, and now colgan is doing the same. I had a friend get hired onto the saab at eagle the same time I did at colgan in 05. He got furloughed a week after IOE. I have a friend that was hired at island air and has been furloughed twice in 2 years. Bad things happen and people get screwed everywhere.

I don't recommend coming to colgan right now to my best friends. It's a tough gig right now. Hopefully with a contract it will get better. Maybe not. Time will tell. Some of us are here until we take the next step like seggy and I. I live in base, wife works in base, and cant just pack up and leave and start over so quickly. I'm sure Kellwolf is in the same boat at PCL. QOL is sliding, but he's married, lives in base, owns a house in base etc. In that respect, it's bearable. Not perfect, but bearable until we can help change it. Life started off good and now it's at firewall suck power.

Crawl, walk, run. All we can do is educate the people here and teach them to think like we think, not shun them for being uneducated. I'm glad that you and Airdale and a host of others got out and found a better position. That new perspective along with the lessons learned here goes a long way in educating those who are following your footsteps.

 

[jynxyjoe]

*sigh*

I must of re-writ this thing about 4 times now. So I'm gonna make this short.

I'm glad guys like Seggy and Kelwolf are out there trying to educate, God knows i won't. The particulars of this thread irritate me. Its not just that I've heard LoFlyn's arguments before, but I've MADE those arguments before. I was wrong then and you are wrong now.

Ruppert
ex-CJC beech FO KAUG
Emphasis added on the "ex"

 

[mikecweb]

This thread disgusts me. Sorry to say the attitude shown probably isn't going to help the next ALPA drive.

 

[jynxyjoe]

:yeahthat: