Colgan showing the Q400

I think the "just a regional airline" mentaility is something the colgan pilots need to get out of their system. That's no justification for the way you guys get abused over there. The line between "just a regional" and something more along the lines of a national/major begins to blur when you operate 350 knot, 79 seat aircraft and are a subsidary of an airline with over 130 jets. The pilots have the power to step up and make it better.


Im not arguing that at all. Personally, I really havent been mistreated at all by Colgan and am happy to be in the position Im in. Im sorry to those who are truly being mistreated and spend there time disgruntled rather than enjoying the flying that we do. Words typed and "mentalities" will always be judged on furums. Im not a member of this site to get involved in fact vs fiction or he-said, she-said piss matches. I do enjoy the real info that I've gained from this site! However the personal criticisms (what "we" should do or could do and arent doing, etc) and company bashing I could do without. Seriously, though, if you have valuable advice as to what us Colganites can do, or should do that actually has a plan of attack, by all means - do share! :laff:
 
Seriously, though, if you have valuable advice as to what us Colganites can do, or should do that actually has a plan of attack, by all means - do share! :laff:

We vote in a union and there goes the Colgan bashing :)

We do things here that airline pilots SHOULD NOT have to do. No reason why they have us drive our own personal cars from AUG to BHB. Our outstation basing is a joke, as well as the payrates on the Q, our medical benefits, 401K (not matching), and how they can change things on a whim.
 
Yep, vote in a union, and negotiate a contract is step 1. I don't mean to bash colgan pilots at all, in fact I wish you guys all the best. I just hope you take steps to make Colgan a better place for the people that come after you, especially in light of where your company is headed. I'm certainly no expert, I'm "just a regional" pilot myself. I certainly can't tell you guys what to do, only offer some perspective from an outsider's point of view.
 
We vote in a union and there goes the Colgan bashing :)

We do things here that airline pilots SHOULD NOT have to do. No reason why they have us drive our own personal cars from AUG to BHB. Our outstation basing is a joke, as well as the payrates on the Q, our medical benefits, 401K (not matching), and how they can change things on a whim.


Hey anytime they want to pay me $90 to drive the 1.5 hrs to BHB, count me in! I understand about the payrates but what honestly will a union do? Not being smart. But because I dont know, what does a union do? What will it do for me individually besides cost me dues? Will a pay increase make up for the cost of dues? I dont know about you but I got to where I am today by myself... looking out for #1 - ME. This pay "fight" has been an ongoing thing for a long time! I know an FO at XJT that only makes a couple bucks more... but he pays union dues and I fly more hours than he does! Dont know about everyone else but I came here to get hours, upgrade and move on - the $ will come! Not you but Ive heard Colgan pilots who've just been hired on complain about flying alot!!! WTF?! Isnt that what we are here to do?! I can honestly tell you that, yeah, the Beeches are in an uncertain state, but I am SOO happy with my job, Im fine with the pay and benefits and Im cool with the base! Scheduling sucks at most companies so thats just not an argument.

Fly happy!
 
What will it do for me individually besides cost me dues?

Hopefully negotiate a contract with work rules that where virtually non-existant when I was a scheduler

- No more waiting at DCA or IAD for 2 hours for a Colgan driver to pick you up.
- No more being called at 4am, 5 times in a row to be at the airport in an hour when your reserve starts at 11am.
- No more having your scheduled adjusted to show 1min prior to push back time due to FAA regulated work rules.
- No more renting a car to drive to another out station to pick up a plane and then that plane not even being available.
- No more having 1 scheduler tell you that 4 hours of reserve while sitting at an airport is not considered hot reserve and not payable, while another one gives it to you.
- How about having it written in contract how much your paid for WX or MX cancellations and not a guess from a scheduler.

Theres much more. I really wish when I worked as a scheduler I knew more, and I knew that this was not the norm.

Right now you want a piece of paper that is legally binding that company must follow, and cannot pursue action against you for not just doing what the say unless you as well are going against that contract. But then at least you know the rules ahead of time....

-Rob
 
ALPA will give you a CONTRACT, that becomes your working agreement with the company. Right now you are working under a HANDSHAKE.

Big difference. Its a LOT easier to retract a handshake than a contract in a court.
 
Hey anytime they want to pay me $90 to drive the 1.5 hrs to BHB, count me in! I understand about the payrates but what honestly will a union do? Not being smart. But because I dont know, what does a union do? What will it do for me individually besides cost me dues? Will a pay increase make up for the cost of dues? I dont know about you but I got to where I am today by myself... looking out for #1 - ME.

How about a commuters clause? I currently commute and would love to have a commuters clause to protect me from getting a missed trip.

In my last forced move I was told I was already given enough time to move, though I never actually got any days off to move. In another post you can actually see my schedule. You will see I only had 24 hours rest in 7 days which they said counted as my moving time. When I tried to ask for relocation assistance I was told I would receive a missed trip if I missed my show time, and I was on my own. I was held responsible for traveling up to a new base and showing up to work even though I had not been given any time off to make a move. Without a union there was nothing to enforce our so called ''relocation policy'' and they wouldn't even deadhead me to work. I had done three 5 day trips in a row with 24 hours rest in between each 7 days. I was told those rest periods counted as my moving time.

Another benefit I can think of is the legal protection a union provides. Union lawyers who stand up for you when something goes wrong. If you ever bend some metal and find yourself in court having a union backing is worth the dues. There are members on this site who have been helped by a union for legal issues. They can probably explain this better then I can.

It's not just about ME ME ME although the above are certainly examples of how a union would help me specifically. We as a whole group need to make it better and raise the bar to make this industry better. Sure it's a regional and you plan on moving on that's fine, but there are also others who will come after you. You might be leaving here before you have a chance to get a contract, but at least by voting you have the opportunity to make it better for those who come after you.
 
I dont know about you but I got to where I am today by myself... looking out for #1 - ME. This pay "fight" has been an ongoing thing for a long time! I know an FO at XJT that only makes a couple bucks more... but he pays union dues and I fly more hours than he does! Dont know about everyone else but I came here to get hours, upgrade and move on - the $ will come!

So, with age 65 coming up, a possible recession looming, mergers on the horizon, you're still thinking you're gonna get your time and move up to a major quickly? I wish I lived in your reality, man. 'Cause from where I'm sitting, the brakes could get thrown on at any second. That leaves a LOT of guys at a crappy regional they just went to get their time and get out. What then? Stick it out at the crappy regional, or make a lateral move to start over at the bottom of another seniority list.....assuming other regionals are hiring. The whole "looking out for #1" is what's gonna cause the house of cards to come crashing down. Guess what, though? When you finally make it to that major....you'll be paying union dues more than likely.

Im fine with the pay and benefits and Im cool with the base! Scheduling sucks at most companies so thats just not an argument.

I'm not fine with my pay. I look around, and I see plenty of guys flying the same equipment for $10/hr more than me. Sorry I can't sit around and sing kumbaya and hold hands with management. I've been kicked in the balls too many times by them.

Now, what's a union gonna do other than take your 1.9%? How about this. Colgan decides to close your base (which you've said you're cool with). The base you get is one you're not so cool with, so you want to commute. No commuter clause now. There would be with a union. On top of that, if your base closes and you get involuntarily displaced, you'd get 6 days off to move. If it was in fact an involuntary displacement, the company would pay for the move as well. Need to break a lease to move? Company covers that, too. Get bought off of IOE as an FO and don't want to be treated as a reserve? Contract would prevent that from happening as well. A contract would also establish set pay rates for DHing, cancellations, junior manning and extension pay and any premiums for open time. Oh, and if scheduling calls to extend you past your release time, you can tell them to pound sand and not worry about getting called on the carpet for that. Add all of that to the medical advice, networking opportunities, legal advice and loss of license insurance benefits you can get from ALPA....I'd say that 1.9% is a bargain.
 
Hey anytime they want to pay me $90 to drive the 1.5 hrs to BHB, count me in! I understand about the payrates but what honestly will a union do? Not being smart. But because I dont know, what does a union do? What will it do for me individually besides cost me dues? Will a pay increase make up for the cost of dues? I dont know about you but I got to where I am today by myself... looking out for #1 - ME. This pay "fight" has been an ongoing thing for a long time! I know an FO at XJT that only makes a couple bucks more... but he pays union dues and I fly more hours than he does! Dont know about everyone else but I came here to get hours, upgrade and move on - the $ will come! Not you but Ive heard Colgan pilots who've just been hired on complain about flying alot!!! WTF?! Isnt that what we are here to do?! I can honestly tell you that, yeah, the Beeches are in an uncertain state, but I am SOO happy with my job, Im fine with the pay and benefits and Im cool with the base! Scheduling sucks at most companies so thats just not an argument.

Fly happy!

I just have to say - this is one of the most niave things I've ever heard from a pilot. Not to mention a Colgan pilot. You have a LOT of learning to do. Its people like you that keep feeding the devil that is the "Bottom Feeder Airline". You need to check that attitude, otherwise you'll be in for a rude awakening someday when you're kicked to the curb at your bottom-feeding non-union regional for making a "minor" mistake. Because with that attitude, nobody will be there to help save your career. Pilots need Unions. Period. Its insurance for your career.


Seggy, goodluck with the next union drive. I can only hope there aren't too many at Colgan with this attitude, otherwise the attempt is doomed to fail again. Hopefully you'll be in training at a Legacy before then. ;)
 
HA HA HA!!! It worked!!!! I got a reaction!!! :nana2: Ahhhhh! Relax! Dont get your undies in a bunch! For the most part - Those that work for Colgan are proud to do so and those that work for XJT are also proud to do so. They certainly are succeeding at making it "us against them" and I find that sad. Cant we all just get along?!:rolleyes: But really, those of us that fly for a regional airline - COME ON, its just that... a REGIONAL AIRLINE! What did we really expect?!?

This has been 'deep thoughts' by Loflyn! :bandit:

Time to wake up and smell the larger trend, kid.

With majors drawing down on larger equipment, they're outsourcing to 'regional' operators to do smaller narrowbody work. Ergo, the paradigm is shifting.

Things are moving towards a new standard in the industry. The work we do right here and now in the 'regional' level will be what sets the standard for the industry in the next several years, if not the duration of our careers.
 
Hey anytime they want to pay me $90 to drive the 1.5 hrs to BHB, count me in! I understand about the payrates but what honestly will a union do? Not being smart. But because I dont know, what does a union do? What will it do for me individually besides cost me dues? Will a pay increase make up for the cost of dues? I dont know about you but I got to where I am today by myself... looking out for #1 - ME. This pay "fight" has been an ongoing thing for a long time! I know an FO at XJT that only makes a couple bucks more... but he pays union dues and I fly more hours than he does! Dont know about everyone else but I came here to get hours, upgrade and move on - the $ will come! Not you but Ive heard Colgan pilots who've just been hired on complain about flying alot!!! WTF?! Isnt that what we are here to do?! I can honestly tell you that, yeah, the Beeches are in an uncertain state, but I am SOO happy with my job, Im fine with the pay and benefits and Im cool with the base! Scheduling sucks at most companies so thats just not an argument.

Fly happy!

Blazingly ignorant statements like this just reinforce the concept of what a kool-aid drinker you really are.

Sooner or later, somebody at Colgan is going to get violated or have a problem, and the company is going to hang them out to dry to cover their own agendas.

It just might be you. Then what?
 
Loflyn,

Be very very grateful of how well we have it at xjet compared to colgan even though it might be a steppin stone for most of us. I agree with Firebird that the regional standard may be the future standard, pay the dues, and like the union guys take care of us. Remember, its a treasure chest saved up for a rainy day.
 
Thanks Airdale and Firebird, I totally forgot the most important item on the union perks list: job security. If you go off the runway despite the fact that the airport gave you inaccurate braking reports, the company is tossing out witness statements by airport personnel that are pretty much total fabrications and people are screaming for a scapegoat, ALPA is gonna back you. In that instance, the company will fire you the day the report goes public, despite the fact that the NTSB hasn't even determined if the cause was pilot error or not. Luckily, ALPA is right there with the paperwork already filled out to grieve the termination. Now, you're still gonna be unemployed for a bit, but once that grievance gets heard, you'll more than likely not only get your job back, but you'll get back pay for all that time you were unfairly terminated. Whether you WANT the job back is up to you. At a non-union carrier.....you're a scapegoat waiting for the slaughter.
 
Loflyn,
Have you ever read the flying the line Vol I and II? If you have not, you can contact our Seggy for a free copy. :D

Seggy, give me a call if you need some help for next ALPA drive(when I get out of Probation year, :p)
 
I just have to say - this is one of the most niave things I've ever heard from a pilot. Not to mention a Colgan pilot. You have a LOT of learning to do. Its people like you that keep feeding the devil that is the "Bottom Feeder Airline".

Boy, isn't this the pot calling the kettle black. When did you go off and become so wise and righteous? It must have been during your short stint of getting abused daily by colgan, the bottom feeding devil. THe same devil that gave you enough experience to leave and work somewhere else, lol.

I gotta say, this site has changed a lot in last 2 or 3 years. Some of the threads recently hold the same tone as the stuff on the "other site." Nothing but hate and bickering, everyone all the sudden becoming experts, doom and gloom, my company is better than yours, your company is worse than mine, blah blah blah. 3 years ago a lot of us were still cfi's swapping stories and hoping to get hired somewhere, and now in the "airline pilot" forum at least, it's all negative. As soon as someone starts a thread in the Airline pilot forum, it gets negative responses. I don't even think gojet and mesa and gulfstream get bashed as much as colgan here lately, and I'm sure somebody with 6 months of "industry" experience will follow my post and tell me all about it. I'm ducking out of this forum for a while and I'll lurk somewhere else on JC that's a little more positive and upbeat. C-ya
 
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