Charter airline Champion Air going out of business

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ready2fly said:
Seggy was on the the Colgan organizing committee that did everything within their power to get ALPA on property.

He did his part.

So, no, Seggy is not included in this.
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This is what makes the point so rediculous.
Velo and PCL and god knows who else on this forum will deny jumpseats of non-union airline pilots.
Y'all stick up for Seggy because he was on the OC at Colgan.
Yet there is a guy at Skybus right now that is just like Seggy trying to not only improve his airline and this industry but you guys won't give him a ride home.
Rediculous.
 
mikecweb said:
This is what makes the point so rediculous.
Velo and PCL and god knows who else on this forum will deny jumpseats of non-union airline pilots.
Y'all stick up for Seggy because he was on the OC at Colgan.
Yet there is a guy at Skybus right now that is just like Seggy trying to not only improve his airline and this industry but you guys won't give him a ride home.
Rediculous.
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too-shay
 
mikecweb said:
This is what makes the point so rediculous.
Velo and PCL and god knows who else on this forum will deny jumpseats of non-union airline pilots.
Y'all stick up for Seggy because he was on the OC at Colgan.
Yet there is a guy at Skybus right now that is just like Seggy trying to not only improve his airline and this industry but you guys won't give him a ride home.
Rediculous.
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Seggy didn't knowingly stab an entire profession in the back when he took his job. The Skybus pilot did.
 
And you would only kiss my co's mangment to have my QOL and pay......You don't know what you don;t have. I am corperate because I saw thru the B.S. If you say that you are industry standards, well, sir,......you are only at the bottom of what could be because of your representation...your union is null and you know it. I only wish it could be stronger for you guys.....much like NWA's MX. I have all the faith in those guys, but, they were victums of the industry because they could be replaced.........well, guess what guys...we.....are.....next! Union or not , I have respect for everyone here...
 
PCL_128 said:
Seggy didn't knowingly stab an entire profession in the back when he took his job. The Skybus pilot did.
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I know in your circles and meetings thats how those guys are viewed. Yes they went to work for peanuts compared to what they are supposed to. Yes they have no work rules or a union. But you guys are so blind to the fact that someone may have seen it as a chance to fly for a 121 airline and be a home everynight. Most of their pilots aren't kids going to the only place that would hire them. Many of them are furloughed pilots, freight dawgs, and the like whose family life prevents them from taking a job elsewhere.
They didn't cross a picket line. They didn't stab anyone. And there are even some of them that are trying to unionize and improve the working conditions at not only their airline but the industry as a whole. For some reason you can't see that.
 
CE525BGuy said:
And you would only kiss my co's mangment to have my QOL and pay......
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:laff: Whatever you say, boss. I'm home every day of the year. QOL doesn't get much better than that. But keep thinking that you have it so much better than me if that makes you feel better.

well, guess what guys...we.....are.....next!
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We'll see about that. Now go get your boss's coffee and clean the hanger!
 
mikecweb said:
But you guys are so blind to the fact that someone may have seen it as a chance to fly for a 121 airline and be a home everynight.
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I'm not blind to it, I simply don't care. His desire to fly 121 and be home every night is not greater than the needs of the profession. If everyone acted so selfishly and just said "screw it" to the profession, then there would be no profession in the first place.
 
mikecweb said:
Kind of like when you went to Gulfstream.
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Not really. Like I said, there's a difference between knowingly undercutting the profession and just being a noob who doesn't know better. Newbies going to GIA or non-union regionals are not the same as experienced air line pilots choosing to go to places like Skybus. They know better.
 
Who is the industry #%^@?.... Not only do I not tend to anyones coffee... I don't sit around and complain about my schedule and other "real" pilots unions. I am talking to a second rate "all my life" pilot who thinks that they have it good at a low-cost airline job making sub-par wages here...... Don't mean to be on the defensive, but, you're out of your element Donny!!!!
You arn't making the real wages and you arn't being represented well........Like in nam!!!
If you can show otherwise, I will humble myself...only being the Ds advocate here:D
 
I guess we'll just agree to disagree.

Sidebar: I'm in ATL every sunday now from 2am till 4pm if you ever want to grab lunch lemme know. Deep down I know you are interested in making this profession better, as am I, we just have different ways at going about it. Nothing a few beers...errr....coffee can't fix.
 
Who is the industry #%^@?.... Not only do I not tend to anyones coffee... I don't sit around and complain about my schedule and other "real" pilots unions. I am talking to a second rate "all my life" pilot who thinks that they have it good at a low-cost airline job making sub-par wages here...... Don't mean to be on the defensive, but, you're out of your element Donny!!!!
You arn't making the real wages and you arn't being represented well........Like in nam!!!
If you can show otherwise, I will humble myself...only being the Ds advocate here
biggrin.gif
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Donny? Who's Donny? You really should get back on your meds.

Now go clean the plane!
 
mikecweb said:
I guess we'll just agree to disagree.

Sidebar: I'm in ATL every sunday now from 2am till 4pm if you ever want to grab lunch lemme know. Deep down I know you are interested in making this profession better, as am I, we just have different ways at going about it. Nothing a few beers...errr....coffee can't fix.
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Sounds good. Lots of us JCers around tha ATL. We'll have to get together.
 
PCL_128 said:
You're comparing apples to peanuts. Champion wasn't a scheduled passenger operation, they were a niche charter operation. You shouldn't compare them to scheduled passenger operations, you should compare them to other charter operators. When looked at compared to their true peers such as Miami Air and Ryan, they were right in the standard.
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So why were they part of the Air Line Pilots Association? After all, what they or any of the other charter operators do obviously does not affect our bottom line, correct? Should we also exclude FedEx or other cargo operators? They are not passenger carriers, so their pay and work rules improvements should not even apply to our negotiations?

Why should a B727-200 or B737-800 pilot make any less because their operation is non-scheduled? Last I checked, 150 passengers is 150 passengers, regardless of how they obtained their ticket.

It seems to me you don't want to improve the piloting profession in general... Just the piloting profession as it applies to the airline segment of the industry. You said you don't like seeing ALPA pilots on the street. Neither do I. I also don't like to see ALPA pilots with terrible work rules and pay rates, even though at first glance that is acceptable to you because of the difference in our operations. Just because we fly "mass transit" in scheduled service does not mean we should be more appropriately compensated than our brethren in the supplemental world.

I just laugh how pilots at some non-union companies are called "proto-scabs" because of their low pay and work rules, yet our own union carriers are working for very sub-par pay with terrible working conditions. Maybe we should turn our attention in-house, before we go criticizing others.
 
Wait??? You flew for Gulfstream????? Now you go pay up your loans young man! god only knows you earned that multi-time!
 
PCL_128 said:
Not really. Like I said, there's a difference between knowingly undercutting the profession and just being a noob who doesn't know better. Newbies going to GIA or non-union regionals are not the same as experienced air line pilots choosing to go to places like Skybus. They know better.
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WOW... Im pro union, but you have your head so far up ALPA's ass it disgusting. Keep suckling the teat of ALPA. Its insulting that you think its OK for the "stupid noob" to goto Gulfstream because s/he doesn't know any better. We all were "noobs" and knew better and you should have as well. It doesn't take a genius to figure that one out.

People do things that work best for them, like you going to Gulfstream. How many times have you heard the "QOL over pay" argument? Well maybe these Skybus and Virgin guys think that their QOL is better for whatever reasons they have. Im in no way for Skybus or what they represent but don't knock someone until you have taken the time to know why they made these decisions. I don't think anyone at Skybus took the job because they wanted to bring down the industry. And PCL and Velo my #1 priority in life is my families happiness and well being. If I think I can make my family happier then I will do it, this isn't a college fraternity. When Southwest was starting out what do you think the ALPA pilots had to say about them. I am pro-union but I would take a dump in ALPAs cheerios if that meant making my kids happier. If you put ALPA and this industry above your families well being and happiness then you have problems.
 
SoCalAprch said:
WOW... Im pro union, but you have your head so far up ALPA's ass it disgusting. Keep suckling the teat of ALPA. Its insulting that you think its OK for the "stupid noob" to goto Gulfstream because s/he doesn't know any better. We all were "noobs" and knew better and you should have as well. It doesn't take a genius to figure that one out.

People do things that work best for them, like you going to Gulfstream. How many times have you heard the "QOL over pay" argument? Well maybe these Skybus and Virgin guys think that their QOL is better for whatever reasons they have. Im in no way for Skybus or what they represent but don't knock someone until you have taken the time to know why they made these decisions. I don't think anyone at Skybus took the job because they wanted to bring down the industry. And PCL and Velo my #1 priority in life is my families happiness and well being. If I think I can make my family happier then I will do it, this isn't a college fraternity. When Southwest was starting out what do you think the ALPA pilots had to say about them. I am pro-union but I would take a dump in ALPAs cheerios if that meant making my kids happier. If you put ALPA and this industry above your families well being and happiness then you have problems.
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Amen
 
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