Challenger crashed onto highway in Naples FL

Inverted said:
It happens...

Hell, going from Airbus to Boeing! TOGA button on the Airbus is Autothrottle disconnect on the 737. There I am in training, things are going great, I am nailing this approach and fully ready to go missed with the automation on and ooooooooops, I disconnect the autothrottle, and that puts me one step behind hitting TOGA lol.
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Was there a TOGA button? I thought Bus TOGA was push it full forward into TOGA detent. And the red buttons on the side were A/T disconnect?
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Was there a TOGA button? I thought Bus TOGA was push it full forward into TOGA detent. And the red buttons on the side were A/T disconnect?
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On the 320 series thats true. Not sure about the others. Maybe the older stuff

On the 321ceo there is a Bump button tho, but that just unlocks (lack of a better term) the Bump range, still requires you manually move the Thrust levers to the TOGA detent.
 
Boots2Wings said:
On the 320 series thats true. Not sure about the others. Maybe the older stuff

On the 321ceo there is a Bump button tho, but that just unlocks (lack of a better term) the Bump range, still requires you manually move the Thrust levers to the TOGA detent.
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Yeah. That’s why I don’t get the confusion for Airbus v Boeing. The A/T disconnect buttons are in the same spot, aren’t they? @Inverted
 
The problem I did see was Boeing guys who came to Airbus, on approach, they wanted to disconnect A/T, and would hit the red disconnect buttons on the side like in a Boeing. But! In the Airbus, the thrust levers are in the CL detent. So it goes into climb power. Then they’d realize what they did and manually pull it back.

Match the donut, disconnect. Or just go to idle to disconnect (at some point in the descent/approach).



I haven’t seen confusion for Airbus to Boeing. Boeing TOGA switches are buried in the top base of the throttle handle. You’d have to meaningfully push them.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
The problem I did see was Boeing guys who came to Airbus, on approach, they wanted to disconnect A/T, and would hit the red disconnect buttons on the side like in a Boeing. But! In the Airbus, the thrust levers are in the CL detent. So it goes into climb power. Then they’d realize what they did and manually pull it back.

Match the donut, disconnect. Or just go to idle to disconnect (at some point in the descent/approach).


I haven’t seen confusion for Airbus to Boeing. Boeing TOGA switches are buried in the top base of the throttle handle. You’d have to meaningfully push them.
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Match and Mash…

But i imagine it comes from the lack of movement on the Bus’ thrust levers. Its counter to most other aircraft people have flown, so when the deck is stacked right, I can see it being a gotcha.
Where as the Boeing is more intuitive for pilots since its throttles behave “normally”. Also its relatively rare to disconnect the AT in the bus (maybe 20-30% of the time at most). Where as in say the 737, it seems to be an everytime occurrence.
 
Boots2Wings said:
Match and Mash…

But i imagine it comes from the lack of movement on the Bus’ thrust levers. Its counter to most other aircraft people have flown, so when the deck is stacked right, I can see it being a gotcha.
Where as the Boeing is more intuitive for pilots since its throttles behave “normally”. Also its relatively rare to disconnect the AT in the bus (maybe 20-30% of the time at most). Where as in say the 737, it seems to be an everytime occurrence.
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Yup. That’s why I was confused about @Inverted comment about Airbus to Boeing problem with TOGA.
 
I do remember a long time ago a CRJ operator shut down both engines trying to get a “sub-idle” by lifting the red shutoff switches and trying to get the thrust levers to go back a little more (moar idle) to make a speed/descent clearance.

Doing it at 1000-900 feet to slow down fully configured to make a 500’ stable call?

Hopefully the challenger has CVR/FDR because this is a very curious incident.

Terrible crash no doubt
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Was there a TOGA button? I thought Bus TOGA was push it full forward into TOGA detent. And the red buttons on the side were A/T disconnect?
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Wait sorry. I had two different things going on in my brain and totally typed the wrong thing. I meant going from, the Phenom to the Airbus. The TOGA button became the autothrust disconnect lol. Been a long day...
 
Inverted said:
Wait sorry. I had two different things going on in my brain and totally typed the wrong thing. I meant going from, the Phenom to the Airbus. The TOGA button became the autothrust disconnect lol. Been a long day...
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yeah, every GA airplane I flew that had a toga button, had it where the A/T DISCO is.
 
Inverted said:
It happens...

Hell, going from Airbus to Boeing! TOGA button on the Airbus is Autothrottle disconnect on the 737. There I am in training, things are going great, I am nailing this approach and fully ready to go missed with the automation on and ooooooooops, I disconnect the autothrottle, and that puts me one step behind hitting TOGA lol.
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definitely did not do this in the 737 sim
 
Inverted said:
Reading that one of the guys was a former NJA pilot, and the other was a former VXer :(
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Names released. If that is who I think it is, he was involved in a lawsuit against VX for termination.



"We're not going to make the runway, we've lost both engines," the pilot of a small twin-engine jet that took off from Columbus radioed just before crashing onto a busy Florida highway near Naples on Friday.

The pilot, Edward Daniel Murphy, 50, of Oakland Park, Florida and co-pilot Ian Frederick Hofmann, 65, of Pompano Beach, Florida both died in the crash, according to the Collier County Sheriff's Office in Florida. Survivors included crew member Sydney Ann Bosmans, 23, of Jupiter, Florida; and passengers Aaron Baker, 35, and Audra Green, 23, both of Columbus.


The small Bombardier Challenger 600 had five people on board when it took off from Ohio State University's airport at 12:30 p.m. Friday on its way to the Naples Airport. It was scheduled for a subsequent departure to Fort Lauderdale, said Robin King, director of communication with the Naples Airport Authority.


The plane, which crashed onto southbound Interstate 75 at about 3:10 p.m, destroyed at least two vehicles in a fiery explosion, roughly 4.7 miles from the airport. Officials at Ohio State said the aircraft was not affiliated with the university.

Friday night, the Hop-a-Jet charter company released a statement saying it had "received confirmed reports of an accident involving one of our leased aircraft near Naples" and that it would dispatch a team to the crash site. The Federal Aviation Administration and the National Transportation Safety Board are investigating the incident.


"It was coming in for a landing," King said. "We received word that it had possibly lost an engine, we have not confirmed that, then we lost contact" just before the plane went down."

The Naples Airport Authority was unaware of who was on the crashed jet or why they were headed to southwest Florida, King said.

In a recording of the final radio communications with the aircraft, the pilot says: "OK, Challenger, Hop-A-Jet 823, lost both engines, emergency. I'm making an emergency landing."

The incident was at least the seventh fatal crash involving that series of Bombardier private jets since 2000, a Dispatch review of NTSB records found. Bombardier Inc., a private business jet manufacturer based in Montreal, Canada, could not be reached for comment.

The conditions of the three other people aboard the jet who were not killed remain unclear. Two ground vehicles were damaged in the crash: a 2015 Chevrolet Silverado and a 2023 Nissan Armada SUV.

The driver of the Silverado, a 48-year-old Naples man, suffered minor injuries and was taken to a local hospital, FHP said. The driver of the Nissan, a 66-year-old woman, and her two passengers, an 85-year-old woman and a 31-year-old woman, escaped with no injuries.

Witnesses to the crash described a chaotic scene.

"All of a sudden I saw a lot of black smoke," said Naples-area resident Jinny Johnson, who happened upon the crash just minutes after it took place. "It was pitch black. As I got closer, the smoke got a little lighter. And then I saw flames."


Flames shot into the air, eating into the plane, and there was a damaged car sitting on the median, Johnson said. As she crept north, sticking to the curb lane on the far side of the road, she watched everything unfold.

Emergency vehicles had not yet arrived, and as traffic crept along, she watched a helicopter land near the wreckage. Ambulance, fire and police vehicles sped north up the sides of the interstate on the southbound side, she said. She thought it had hit a side wall along the highway, but wasn't sure.


Naples Airport dispatched firetrucks with a special foam-type substance that can help control jet fuel fires.

"Our immediate concern is for the well-being of our passengers, crew members, and their families," the company that leased the jet said.
 
touch-n-go said:
I keep thinking of the British Airway Heathrow crash of 2008 that lost both engines on final. Wonder if a similar situation could be going on here. Obviously very different aircraft.

simpleflying.com

What Caused The 2008 British Airways 777 Crash At Heathrow?

The accident represented the triple-seven family's first hull loss.
simpleflying.com simpleflying.com
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It was a fairly short flight and the Fuel Cooled Oil Cooler transfers a good amount of heat to the fuel on the way to the engines.

Here is a screen capture from a video in our 604 showing the fuel is over 80C°
IMG_6787.png
 
Filing an ASAP against your FO for insubordination and noncompliance. Union ERC investigates, finds it a nothing burger. CA decides to pursue it more and emails the union and company, that he is going to the FAA directly.

Rolls downhill from there…
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Filing an ASAP against your FO for insubordination and noncompliance. Union ERC investigates, finds it a nothing burger. CA decides to pursue it more and emails the union and company, that he is going to the FAA directly.

Rolls downhill from there…
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Wow. Wonder what the ASAP was regarding, or what the FO supposedly did, or apparently didn’t, do.
 
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