Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
I thought of DEF too given past issues with it but it seems unlikely to take a 1000 mile flight for that to kick in.
Challenger crashed onto highway in Naples FL
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Richman
JC’s Resident Curmudgeon
Agreed. Unless there is some weird density difference where it would separate, and the tank simply burned down the level it was sitting. DEF is about 60% water, so, in theory, it could settle to the bottom of the tank or have some weird interaction with methoxyethanol (AKA PRIST). But WTF knows. This is just some pre-2nd cup blather by me in my jammies.
arkflyr
Well-Known Member
I know nothing of Challengers but I do know that there was a Falcon 20 that this happened to back in the late 90s in Kansas City. In the Falcon there is a metal block for the idle stop on the thrust levers, you have to lift a trigger to go over that stop into cutoff. That block was loose or misinstalled, I can't remember now, and allowed the crew to pull the thrust levers into cutoff unknowingly. They ended up dead sticking the airplane into an old rail yard just south of the MKC airport with the only damage being a few blown tires. Given the lack of damage it is hard to find anything besides the litigation between the operator and salvage company who moved the airplane to the airport where it was reassembled.
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That says it landed on a levee which is wrong, it was an old rail yard that had just had all the tracks and ties removed in the old KC stockyards.
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
Delta managed to simultaneously shut off both in the 717 about 6 or 7 years ago. But fortunately they had lots of altitude and the BR715s restart pretty quickly.
charlie1017
Well-Known Member
Delta also shut off both in a 767 out of LAX in the 1980s iirc.
In 1987. Best part of the Delta situation, was that after they shut down both engines and got them restarted before nearly hitting the Pacific Ocean, getting down to about 600 AGL or so before restart, the crew continued the flight to CVG afterwards. Somewhat unusual...but the Captain knew it was his own error that shut both engines down, if that makes a difference.
UAL had an almost identical incident with a 767 out of SFO a year prior.
invadertim
In my experence, its always my fault.
Yeah, that was an issue where the crew placed an iPad up against the throttle levers, on top of the fuel cut off knobs. When the auto throttles reduced power, the iPad pushed both cutoffs closed. There's a plate there now to avoid a repeat...
When I was told the 767 story in training they said back then the EEC switches were down on the pedestal right below the fuel control switches. Intending to reset the EECs the CA grabbed the wrong switches. That's what prompted them to be relocated to the overhead panel. I can't confirm the accuracy of this story since I've only ever seen them on the overhead.
Either way all of these anecdotes are a good reminder to never slam any control to the stop on an aircraft. Things don't always work, especially on older planes. Just like the Westwind where the reverser piggybacks have been known to jump the gate if you slam the throttle to the stop. That caused at least one in flight deployment that lead to a total loss.
Either way all of these anecdotes are a good reminder to never slam any control to the stop on an aircraft. Things don't always work, especially on older planes. Just like the Westwind where the reverser piggybacks have been known to jump the gate if you slam the throttle to the stop. That caused at least one in flight deployment that lead to a total loss.
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
Yeah that was the gist I got from looking that up. Can definitely see it happening with an old school “do everything quick!” Mentality.
Two I think, funny an overview of those was just in one of the aviation mailing lists I’m on.
Skåning
Well-Known Member
UAL in 1986 and DAL IN 1987
Earlier Shutdown of 767 Power Told in Probe of Delta Incident
When the engines of a Delta Airlines jet were inadvertently cut off shortly after takeoff from Los Angeles International Airport, sending the plane into a terrifying fall, it may not have been the first time a Boeing 767 pilot made the same mistake, a Federal official indicated Saturday.
www.latimes.com
///AMG
Well-Known Member
No, but you do have to positively lift up the finger lifts to allow movement from the idle stop to shutoff. WoffW switch just adjusts the idle position from ground idle to flight idle.
Inverted
mmmmmm wine
I like to fiddle, and I remember doing engine runs on the F-18 and playing with the shutoff levers, I could see having a brain fart and shutting them down in flight lol.
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
One morning in the Lear 45 sim some weird muscle memory thing misfired and instead of yanking on the reverse I pulled the finger guards up and shut down both engines on touchdown. I guess that’s back to caravan/PC12 beta action
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
There was Nepalese (ATR?) where during a training / check flight, the CA in the right seat in stead of going for the flap handle, put both engines into feather in flight. That led to a loss of control / fatal crash.
Inverted
mmmmmm wine
It happens...
Hell, going from Airbus to Boeing! TOGA button on the Airbus is Autothrottle disconnect on the 737. There I am in training, things are going great, I am nailing this approach and fully ready to go missed with the automation on and ooooooooops, I disconnect the autothrottle, and that puts me one step behind hitting TOGA lol.
Cessnaflyer
Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
I currently fly a 604 and am in Wilmington for a Global type. It will be interesting in the school house on Monday.
CoffeeIcePapers
Well-Hung Member
Reverse for me going from CRJ to the bus. In the sim, every go around was an auto throttle disconnect initially.
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
Every TOGA button I’ve seen except Boeing is in that spot. They just had to be different. My sim partner kept hitting the TOGA when he meant to go AT disco, which is kinda inconvenient when you still have like 1000’ to go to mins. And I thought the “TOGA” on the bus is just moving the levers to the TOGA detent?