Challenger crashed onto highway in Naples FL

[MikeD]

So is the airline industry supposed to cater to the Joe Six Pack cheap fare types? Or is air travel something that should cost? Can we complain about how the airlines have become cattle car style, yet be defending the cattle car need of those who ride them like a city bus?

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Since I can’t reply in crayon, I’ll try asking again. What does merger policy have to do with incompetence? Travel is at record level, meaning there’s record demand for said product. Maybe after four years of losses, someone in management would like to change the way they deliver said product?

They should have stayed in their lane. Deregulation was suppose to mean something. The govt allowed 4 airlines to control 85% of the capacity in this country, and left the others fending for the remaining 15%.

Let me guess. YOU work for one of the 85%. I’m in the other 15%. Must be nice looking down from that perch up high.

This ruling against jetBlue / Spirit was BS. There is absolutely nothing good coming to the consumers. People here just alluded that Spirit will have to adapt and be competitive to make it. Well guess what, there goes the ULCC fares that this government just said they’re trying to preserve. Or Spirit goes bankrupt, or worse, out of business. Hooray government. Always protecting us. Can’t make this up if you tried.

 

[HJB]

They should have stayed in their lane. Deregulation was suppose to mean something. The govt allowed 4 airlines to control 85% of the capacity in this country, and left the others fending for the remaining 15%.

Let me guess. YOU work for one of the 85%. I’m in the other 15%. Must be nice looking down from that perch up high.

This ruling against jetBlue / Spirit was BS. There is absolutely nothing good coming to the consumers. People here just alluded that Spirit will have to adapt and be competitive to make it. Well guess what, there goes the ULCC fares that this government just said they’re trying to preserve. Or Spirit goes bankrupt, or worse, out of business. Hooray government. Always protecting us. Can’t make this up if you tried.

Ummm. I’ve been at Spirit for almost 10 years.. you’re not answering my question though. I wanted nothing more than for the merger to happen. But.. Biden isn’t the ceo or president of Spirit. His main responsibility is for the American people, and a Regan appointed judge agreed with their assessment. With that said the only person to blame for spirit’s demise would be its CEO/management, end of story. Maybe after four years of losses, they should realize people are not buying what they are selling (mainly how they sell it) do your • job and change course. Who’d have thought that after countless meltdowns, dismissal customer service, and a route structure not making money, would bankrupt an airline?

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Ummm. I’ve been at Spirit for almost 10 years.. you’re not answering my question though. I wanted nothing more than for the merger to happen. But.. Biden isn’t the ceo or president of Spirit. His main responsibility is for the American people, and a Regan appointed judge agreed with their assessment. With that said the only person to blame for spirit’s demise would be its CEO/management, end of story. Maybe after four years of losses, they should realize people are not buying what they are selling (mainly how they sell it) do your • job and change course. Who’d have thought that after countless meltdowns, dismissal customer service, and a route structure not making money, would bankrupt an airline?

Ok, sorry, I sympathize your position being in the leftover 15%. This isn't just about losses. JetBlue had a plan to execute on. Spirit would have been folded into jetBlue, maybe a base would have closed, some flying shifted, but in the end jobs would have been preserved, and customers would have a nice carrier that could actually compete with the big 4 that control 85%.

There is NO standalone plane that's viable going forward if you are a small fish. jetBlue knows this, that's they tried to buy Virgin. Frontier knows, that's why they tried to buy Spirit. jetBlue jumped in for their round #2. Now who knows what the appeal will do.

The only way jetBlue, Frontier, Spirit, and Allegiant compete and survive long term is being allowed to merge to compete with the big 4. I don't expect a bunch of mentally-checked out 80+ yr olds to understand that.

 

[Wild_Weasel]

Someone caught the crash on dashcam:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1757181949418918273

 

[killbilly]

So is the airline industry supposed to cater to the Joe Six Pack cheap fare types? Or is air travel something that should cost? Can we complain about how the airlines have become cattle car style, yet be defending the cattle car need of those who ride them like a city bus?

It is this cognitive dissonance that makes my head hurt.

 

[///AMG]

That was a very basic part of the checklists for engine fire switches and fuel shutoffs. Engine shutdowns. It was in the preamble to the emergency chapter in the AOM, as well. You must get confirmation from the other pilot. Thought that was a standard everywhere.

It's still a single piloted airplane, this variant just happens to have a non-pilot sitting in tandem behind me, without any controls, doing tactical/mission stuff. So probably apples-to-oranges comparison. Somewhat different mindset. I'd imagine it is standard in multi-piloted mil aircraft as well, though I have never experienced that.

 

[///AMG]

Does the RIO/WSO/ECMO in the Hornet rear cockpit have engine instruments back there? Or is it all mission-related systems and avionics?

Yes, they have the same digital engine instrument readout we do up front, same place actually, right above the left knee. Those old mechanical ones you also had in the -117 went away after the F/A-18A/B. C/D had a slightly modernized version with digital readouts and some buttons. E/F/G all have a full glass one, and a single button to cycle between internal and external fuel readings. But the WSO/EWO does not have any stick or throttles, and they only have a couple actual controls of anything back there, namely canopy jettison, ejection mode selector handle, and I think emergency jettison button (I could be wrong about that one though). Oh yeah, they can also raise/lower the canopy. But they didn't give them a master caution button, or any of the other knobs and switches (or circuit breakers) we have up front for aircraft systems. Get in, shut up

 

[ahw01]

*sigh*

Biden administration lays out plan to squeeze mergers

The FTC and DOJ must convince a skeptical judiciary to adopt the so-called merger guidelines.

www.politico.com

Biden Administration Unveils Tougher Guidelines on Mergers

The proposed road map for regulatory reviews, last updated in 2020, includes a focus on tech platforms for the first time.

www.nytimes.com

Mergers lose their shine as Biden racks up antitrust wins

A judge's decision to block a JetBlue- Spirit union offered new momentum to an antitrust crackdown in Washington. It could force executives to think twice about new deals in 2024.

finance.yahoo.com

All great policies

 

[roundout]

In Cherokee Cruiser’ville, only during democratic administrations.

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times

 

[BE19Pilot]

Yes, they have the same digital engine instrument readout we do up front, same place actually, right above the left knee. Those old mechanical ones you also had in the -117 went away after the F/A-18A/B. C/D had a slightly modernized version with digital readouts and some buttons. E/F/G all have a full glass one, and a single button to cycle between internal and external fuel readings. But the WSO/EWO does not have any stick or throttles, and they only have a couple actual controls of anything back there, namely canopy jettison, ejection mode selector handle, and I think emergency jettison button (I could be wrong about that one though). Oh yeah, they can also raise/lower the canopy. But they didn't give them a master caution button, or any of the other knobs and switches (or circuit breakers) we have up front for aircraft systems. Get in, shut up

I had a couple of F/Os that I flew with that I was tempted to tell them to sit on their hands, and STFU...I never did of course, but I was sure tempted to!

 

[MikeOH58]

https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-repgen/api/Aviation/ReportMain/GenerateNewestReport/193769/pdf?fbclid=IwAR08XiAx2xdfmfA6yTvxP6f4YVZimY_C0SAjwq0B0jqAq6bZ476Dv_NTCZA_aem_AalvcGoMFskynPTdmDsprbclbDV01JI2PMHa2EiN1rD29_RCBhZ_OqFCHW8Xt_fzMTg

NTSB Prelim

 

[Murdoughnut]

https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-repgen/api/Aviation/ReportMain/GenerateNewestReport/193769/pdf?fbclid=IwAR08XiAx2xdfmfA6yTvxP6f4YVZimY_C0SAjwq0B0jqAq6bZ476Dv_NTCZA_aem_AalvcGoMFskynPTdmDsprbclbDV01JI2PMHa2EiN1rD29_RCBhZ_OqFCHW8Xt_fzMTg

NTSB Prelim

Was just reading it and came here to post. Seems like a mystery. Confirmation that the FA saved herself and the pax.

 

[SteveC]

https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-repgen/api/Aviation/ReportMain/GenerateNewestReport/193769/pdf?fbclid=IwAR08XiAx2xdfmfA6yTvxP6f4YVZimY_C0SAjwq0B0jqAq6bZ476Dv_NTCZA_aem_AalvcGoMFskynPTdmDsprbclbDV01JI2PMHa2EiN1rD29_RCBhZ_OqFCHW8Xt_fzMTg

NTSB Prelim

Yeah, I’m not seeing any smoking gun in that report. Maybe more information will come to light further along(?).

 

[Seggy]

"however, no fuel was released when the No. 2 engine main supply line was cut."

They also said that the fuel system seemed to be operating properly and not contaminated....

Also appears they added a little less than 2450 pounds of gas. Wish it said how much they had when they added that amount. About how long can 2450 pounds of gas last you in a Challenger like that?

 

[zmiller4]

"however, no fuel was released when the No. 2 engine main supply line was cut."

They got some fuel when they cut the no. 1 supply line, but that engine failed as well.

That flight attendant is badass.

 

[Cessnaflyer]

"however, no fuel was released when the No. 2 engine main supply line was cut."

They also said that the fuel system seemed to be operating properly and not contaminated....

Also appears they added a little less than 2450 pounds of gas. Wish it said how much they had when they added that amount. About how long can 2450 pounds of gas last you in a Challenger like that?

My personal minimum is 3500#. I wouldn’t want to be that low but it’s not unheard of.

 

[Cessnaflyer]

Yeah, I’m not seeing any smoking gun in that report. Maybe more information will come to light further along(?).

I think it was engines cut with the spoiler or flaps throttle reach around that some are taught.

 

[zmiller4]

"however, no fuel was released when the No. 2 engine main supply line was cut."

They also said that the fuel system seemed to be operating properly and not contaminated....

Also appears they added a little less than 2450 pounds of gas. Wish it said how much they had when they added that amount. About how long can 2450 pounds of gas last you in a Challenger like that?

It sounds like you’re suggesting they ran out of fuel.

Given that both engines failed *literally a second apart*, I guess I don’t think that’s likely?

I think it was engines cut with the spoiler or flaps throttle reach around that some are taught.

I was wondering how much the 600 cockpit was like the CRJ cockpit….ugh. I could see I ncoming morbid long sleeve pilot shirt jokes or something.

 

[Seggy]

It sounds like you’re suggesting they ran out of fuel.

Given that both engines failed *literally a second apart*, I guess I don’t think that’s likely?



I was wondering how much the 600 cockpit was like the CRJ cockpit….ugh. I could see I ncoming morbid long sleeve pilot shirt jokes or something.

Not suggesting anything just pointing out the NTSB spent a lot of time discussing the fuel system in the prelim.

Also the British Airways 777 that had the fuel contamination that lead to fuel starvation to the engines pretty much had a duel engine flameout immediately when they tried to advance the throttles.