The mind is a terrible thing to waste.
CBD Usage
- Thread starter fholbert
- Start date
The mind is a terrible thing to waste.
msmspilot
Well-Known Member
Since I have already posted an article that that’s not true...
On top of that, the FDA has tested CBD products and found the labeling is often wrong.
Warning Letters for Cannabis-Derived Products
Warning Letters for Cannabis-Derived Products
This is not my crazy narrative. This is what the FDA, that you say knows what’s in this stuff, says is in this stuff. And the labels are often wrong.
Since I have already posted an article that that’s not true...
On top of that, the FDA has tested CBD products and found the labeling is often wrong.
Warning Letters for Cannabis-Derived Products
Warning Letters for Cannabis-Derived Productswww.fda.gov
This is not my crazy narrative. This is what the FDA, that you say knows what’s in this stuff, says is in this stuff. And the labels are often wrong.
Pretty good read. Let's dissect:
Over the past several years, FDA has issued several warning letters to firms that market unapproved new drugs that allegedly contain cannabidiol (CBD). As part of these actions, FDA has tested the chemical content of cannabinoid compounds in some of the products, and many were found to not contain the levels of CBD they claimed to contain. It is important to note that these products are not approved by FDA for the diagnosis, cure, mitigation, treatment, or prevention of any disease. Consumers should beware purchasing and using any such products.
The FDA concluded that THC is an active ingredient in a drug product that has been approved under section 505 of the FD&C Act. Period. It's legal in approved drug products. Can I now use a comparison, please? On average, the Alcohol By Volume for beer is 4.5 percent; for wine, 11.6 percent ; and for liquor, 37 percent. Remember NEAR BEER? Non-alcoholic beer is beer that contains very little to no alcohol. By law, non-alcoholic beers sold in the United States can contain up to 0.5% alcohol by volume (ABV), but many brands claim to offer 0.0% ABV.
In hemp, the THC level is 0.3% . Anymore than that, BY LAW, the hemp plant is to be destroyed before any CBD oils/products can me made. That's the law. This is a process. Children can consume hemp products. Again, you ask what is the purpose for consumption? Everyone is different.
Milk does a body good. . .unless you're lactose intolerant.
msmspilot
Well-Known Member
So a company that lies about the THC content of their CBD is still ok because they would never use ingredients they didn’t put on the label? That’s my point. People who are mislabeling things are mislabeling things.Pretty good read. Let's dissect:
Over the past several years, FDA has issued several warning letters to firms that market unapproved new drugs that allegedly contain cannabidiol (CBD). As part of these actions, FDA has tested the chemical content of cannabinoid compounds in some of the products, and many were found to not contain the levels of CBD they claimed to contain. It is important to note that these products are not approved by FDA for the diagnosis, cure, mitigation, treatment, or prevention of any disease. Consumers should beware purchasing and using any such products.
The FDA concluded that THC is an active ingredient in a drug product that has been approved under section 505 of the FD&C Act. Period. It's legal in approved drug products. Can I now use a comparison, please? On average, the Alcohol By Volume for beer is 4.5 percent; for wine, 11.6 percent ; and for liquor, 37 percent. Remember NEAR BEER? Non-alcoholic beer is beer that contains very little to no alcohol. By law, non-alcoholic beers sold in the United States can contain up to 0.5% alcohol by volume (ABV), but many brands claim to offer 0.0% ABV.
In hemp, the THC level is 0.3% . Anymore than that, BY LAW, the hemp plant is to be destroyed before any CBD oils/products can me made. That's the law. This is a process. Children can consume hemp products. Again, you ask what is the purpose for consumption? Everyone is different.
Milk does a body good. . .unless you're lactose intolerant.
You can continue to ignore that problem, but the original question was pilot use of CBD. There is one FDA approved CBD product, and it’s on-label use is for epilepsy. So the answer to that question is that it is unwise for a pilot to risk their career on what is not FAA approved.
@msmspilot You do realize I am reading your posts, right? You do realize you're continuing to deflect from the main question, right? OK, let's go back:
- I looked as well. There were no threads about CBD when I searched.
- No, there is no aviation advisory published for the use of HEMP CBD. There IS an advisory published for marijuana and its derivatives, but there is no such advisory published for hemp.
Understand further, as it relates to hemp and any hemp products, the FAA has ZERO published data or ZERO guidelines for pilots as it relates to any hemp products. Be well advised, however, there is significant misinformation in where to classify hemp products because of the administrative process delays between the FDA and the other government agencies, federal and local. If you wish to ingest hemp, talk with your doctor before consumption.
Never a need for paranoia.
msmspilot
Well-Known Member
Due precaution is not paranoia. I have posted multiple links, including the FDA, that these products are often outside the variances allowed in labeling. The quality control is not there. That’s not paranoia. That’s fact.
The real question here is should a pilot use it. By your admission, hemp has THC in it. That can be distilled. I have no idea what that process would be, but it can be done. And apparently is being done, as the actual testing shows these products are not what they claim.
I don’t know how that position is anything other than reasonable in our current legal climate.
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
I'm really confused @MFT1Air... you seem to be arguing two different things. First, there are some outdated laws on the books. Second you seem to be saying that a pilot shouldn't worry about busting a drug test due to taking a CBD infused product as long as the label says there is no THC in it. I think a lot of people would agree with you on your first point (that's what @Derg was alluding to with his wine comment despite @BEEF SUPREME seeming to think it was some odd personal accusation). I think a lot of people even agree that CBD with no THC is fine for a pilot to take. The issue is that, in the world we live in, because of the first issue, in almost all cases there is no way to know the THC level is something irregardless of what the label says and as such it is very possible that a guy could test positive even though what he was taking said there was no THC in it.
@msmspilot Your point is understood. I've no pushback on it. I make the comparison of FAA's policy about alcohol consumption which is why I used that point in the above thread.
If you wish to compare THC levels to alcohol, then by all means do. . .If you consumed gummies with cbd derived from hemp, you are not in violation of any FAA regulations. I really can't say the same if one had a "near beer" 8 hours or eight minutes before a flight. One test might be a breathalyzer or blood, the other would be a urinalysis. My comfort level would be significantly elevated if I were consuming gummies over the near beer.
As I mentioned previously, I had repeatedly self reported consumption of hemp CBD products as a civil servant working for the federal government . . .not necessarily a professional pilot. My career matters as well. Fortunately, I didn't have a union rep, but I did have legal representation by the federal government <aint that a paradox>. I have NEVER test positive for THC using hemp based CBD products. I openly admitted to use of weed and hash back in the 70s with the last use of marijuana back in 1986. I have never test positive for THC using any marijuana products <my testimonial>. I am familiar with the law. There is no way in hell I would express a viewpoint to compromise anyone by promoting any substance or any activity that's in violation of the appropriate laws. Just not me.
Current legal climate? Been the same climate I've known for the past 47 years of my adult life. Laws change. I still comply with the law and encourage everyone else to do so.
If you wish to compare THC levels to alcohol, then by all means do. . .If you consumed gummies with cbd derived from hemp, you are not in violation of any FAA regulations. I really can't say the same if one had a "near beer" 8 hours or eight minutes before a flight. One test might be a breathalyzer or blood, the other would be a urinalysis. My comfort level would be significantly elevated if I were consuming gummies over the near beer.
As I mentioned previously, I had repeatedly self reported consumption of hemp CBD products as a civil servant working for the federal government . . .not necessarily a professional pilot. My career matters as well. Fortunately, I didn't have a union rep, but I did have legal representation by the federal government <aint that a paradox>. I have NEVER test positive for THC using hemp based CBD products. I openly admitted to use of weed and hash back in the 70s with the last use of marijuana back in 1986. I have never test positive for THC using any marijuana products <my testimonial>. I am familiar with the law. There is no way in hell I would express a viewpoint to compromise anyone by promoting any substance or any activity that's in violation of the appropriate laws. Just not me.
Current legal climate? Been the same climate I've known for the past 47 years of my adult life. Laws change. I still comply with the law and encourage everyone else to do so.
I might be clarifying a couple of things yes. Laws are outdated? True. The FAA provided guidance about marijuana; there is ZERO info about hemp. True. Your hypothesis as it relates to a pilot need not worry about a drug test being positive if the hemp infused CBD product is in fact HEMP is true? Yes.
You're absolutely correct by your conclusion of my push back being the greatest reservation/apprehension for using a product is based PRIMARILY on the probability of a mislabeled or inaccurate level of THC in the product. The narrative is "don't believe the labels," because the label may not be accurate. As true as that may possibly be <nothing is ever absolute>, any due diligence research reduces that chance to nearly zero. Further, if someone bakes me HEMP brownies, mixes me a hemp smoothie <no label> or gives me a hemp energy drink, I am compromised if I partake? That's unrealistic. Yes, possible <I can win the lottery too>, but unrealistic. Further, if. . .and I do mean "if" there's inaccurate labeling, <this is NOW conjecture>, agencies, because of the legalization of hemp, should not test for THC at a level where hemp is legal at the .3% THC. Dirt reefer is what - - 2% THC? What's the THC level of second hand smoke when you walk by a hotel in Las Vegas or Colorado? Yes, always err on the side of caution but zero defect until they are more accurate with their labels? Cmon man, this aint Jenny Craig. Saying no to CBD? It should not be cause I don't trust the labels.
Also, this discussion isn't solely limited to the aviation community. Federal employees, law enforcement, and any other entity that has concerns as it relates to differentiating between hemp and weed have the same concerns and the same ongoing discussions. Inaccurate labels aren't as high a concern.
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Always err on the side of caution!
Baby steps, sir. Baby steps! I am also a lover of context clues.DOT requires drug testing for a class of workers that includes pilots, truck and school bus drivers, train engineers, transit vehicle operators and aircraft maintenance personnel. While marijuana use remains prohibited, the department acknowledged that the federal legalization of hemp means that cannabidiol derived from the crop is no longer a controlled substance.
The federal agency laid out three main points about the new policy:
1. DOT “requires testing for marijuana and not CBD.”
2. Workers should remain wary of using CBD products because they are not currently regulated by the Food and Drug Administration and “labeling of many CBD products may be misleading because the products could contain higher levels of THC than what the product label states.” THC is the main intoxicating compound in marijuana, and drug tests commonly look for its metabolites.
3. The department said “CBD use is not a legitimate medical explanation for a laboratory-confirmed marijuana positive result.” So, if an employee using CBD that contains excess THC tests positive, it can not be defended as a medical use.
Department Of Transportation Says Safety-Sensitive Workers Won’t Be Tested For CBD
The U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) issued a notice on Tuesday clarifying that workers in safety-sensitive positions under its regulations will not be tested for CBD. However, it urged caution in using products containing the cannabis compound because they can trigger positive drug tests...
www.marijuanamoment.net
ChasenSFO
hen teaser
You guys are stoops. Can you take it if you're a pilot? Bad idea purely for reasons of testing, it will not get you high but a positive test is no bueno. But those who pretend it isn't an amazing healing agent are misinformed. My brother in law used to take daily pain killers for his bad back and anti-anxiety meds otherwise he couldn't drive, get through work ect due to crippling social anxiety. Since moving to the Bay Area from the Midwest, he started taking CBD drops(that are very expensive, but...) and he hasn't taken a pain killer or anxiety pill in 4 years now. And obviously there were side effects for the pills that make no longer needing them a huge health bonus. So...yeah, they work. But good CBD is very expensive, sadly.
Just like everyone I know who has become a vegan has much more energy and better overall health, yet everyone likes to think it's cool to crap on them just because some of them are too vocal about their lifestyle.
I don't use CBD, and I eat meat, but that doesn't mean I hate on people who make choices for their health that will have a positive outcome.
I graded your work. It was a good read. Always about continuous improvement. Didn't feel any provocation in your first sentence given I initially didn't know what the label meant and afterwards, most importantly, it didn't apply to me.
Sorry to hear about your brother in law's condition.
ChasenSFO
hen teaser
Come now, stoops is a playful insult, nothing serious. I like these guys. Relax. Smoke some CBD.
My apologies. Culturally naive. Hence the reason for high math, low english SAT score.
I'm clowning.
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
Ok but did he try peppermint oil first? This gal I went to high school with swears it’s the shiz.
ChasenSFO
hen teaser
Yes, actually! It did help a bit, more with the pain than anxiety, but not enough to replace his meds. He tried a lot of things as living in a constant state where missing a dosage meant physical withdrawl was counter productive as it gave him anxiety lol. I'm skeptical about CBD curing cancer and what not, but it really can do wonders for some people.
Cruise
Well-Known Member
A few years ago at ALPA's Air Safety Forum this very topic came up during one of the panels. It was a little comical. The guy from Transport Canada (Canadian FAA) said it was time to put our big-boy pants on and have a meaningful discussion on how to amend the rules to permit some marijuana usage considering it's generally far better than alcohol goes yet that was perfectly legal. There was also some dinosaur from the FAA on the panel too. You could visibly see him birthing a litter of kittens on stage. He was visibly uncomfortable and completely unwilling to hear anything the Transport Canada guy was saying. So if you're wondering why the FAA's view on many, many subjects are straight out of 1950s...this is exactly why. When science-averse dinosaurs have say on matters, you wind up with outdated regulations. Hell, look how tough it was to amend flight time/ duty time rules.
ZeroPapaGolf
Well-Known Member
How do you find legitimate CBD products? We think it could be helpful to some things my wife deals with, but we don’t want to get gas-station quality mystery products.
BEEF SUPREME
Well-Known Member
MFT1 Air posted some helpful links. The key to the whole thing. At least were my understanding is at is finding "hemp based distillate." I'd back it up with a THC home pee test kit from the drug store or amazon. If you are using a product that isn't disclosing that it has THC then you at least catch it before you are at work with drugs in your system.