Catalina BE-55 Crash

tcco94 said:
Wow this won’t piss you off or anything but I just did a phone interview 😭🤣
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Pilot mills, gonna pilot mill, I guess. I still remember when I went to Westwind for a simple checkout. They made me take two written test. Basically do an oral afterwards, before going flying. It took about three hours total. I love mom & pops. A checkout flight is so simple. Give them your logbook. CFI pages through it. Tells you what he/she's looking for, then you go and fly and at the end you get signed off, or not. If only M&P's had the access to DPE's in today's world, that pilot mills do. Sigh.
 
Maximilian_Jenius said:
I have no experience with such a scenario, obviously. So using what I do know, if I were in such a scenario, I'd like to think that one would immediately declare an emergency with whatever controlling agency that you're talking to and request vectors to land. Not that approach/departure control would be able to help with BAI, you're on your own for that mostly. But assuming that you can maintain an altitude and heading. I'd think that declaring an emergency would be the best bet to get you back to land/safety. Assuming that you're not so discombobulated, that you can't have thought to do that and also control said plane. If I'm wrong correct me. I'm here to learn.
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Fly, navigate, communicate; in that order. Of course, the "fly" part is where it falls apart even before we get to navigating and communicating for the non-rated. It would tend to depend on how you got into the instrument conditions. Dark night off the California coast does not equate to a 180-degree turn and we're home free. The Pacific Coast, away from SF and LA, is dark on a moonless night. Sure, the weather might be VFR often, but that does not equate to VMC. And coming out of many of those places, you are most assuredly on your own as far as navigation too; radar coverage or an instrument approach may not be available. It's not a bad plan but the odds are NOT in someone's favor for actually carrying it out.

Your plan presupposes the airplane will be kept under control for that long. The studies vary (and the conditions of the studies are rightly criticized too), but they all point to "not good;" half of all GA weather-related accidents are due to this. In college, when I was learning how to fly, my Dad insisted that I get an instrument rating even if I did not want to do this professionally (at the time, I didn't). It probably saved my life a few times.

This is why, were I King for a day, we would not issue airplane private pilot privileges without instrument ratings unless those certificates bore the same limitation that commercial tickets sans instrument ratings have ("the carriage of passengers beyond 50NM from the origin airport, and at night, is prohibited" or something to that effect). Drastic and deeply unpopular with the Bay Area techbros, sure, but we break a lot of airplanes and bury a LOT of people due to LOC-I, VFR-into-IMC.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
Fly, navigate, communicate; in that order. Of course, the "fly" part is where it falls apart even before we get to navigating and communicating for the non-rated. It would tend to depend on how you got into the instrument conditions. Dark night off the California coast does not equate to a 180-degree turn and we're home free. The Pacific Coast, away from SF and LA, is dark on a moonless night. Sure, the weather might be VFR often, but that does not equate to VMC. And coming out of many of those places, you are most assuredly on your own as far as navigation too; radar coverage or an instrument approach may not be available. It's not a bad plan but the odds are NOT in someone's favor for actually carrying it out.

Your plan presupposes the airplane will be kept under control for that long. The studies vary (and the conditions of the studies are rightly criticized too), but they all point to "not good;" half of all GA weather-related accidents are due to this. In college, when I was learning how to fly, my Dad insisted that I get an instrument rating even if I did not want to do this professionally (at the time, I didn't). It probably saved my life a few times.

This is why, were I King for a day, we would not issue airplane private pilot privileges without instrument ratings unless those certificates bore the same limitation that commercial tickets sans instrument ratings have ("the carriage of passengers beyond 50NM from the origin airport, and at night, is prohibited" or something to that effect). Drastic and deeply unpopular with the Bay Area techbros, sure, but we break a lot of airplanes and bury a LOT of people due to LOC-I, VFR-into-IMC.
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I agree and I'll tell you why. Getting my A/P was far more difficult than getting my PPL and once I was certified I could literally work on darn near anything and sign it off (with some supervision and some restrictions). As a newly minted minted PPL with no instrument rating it was entirely up to me to decide when I wanted to fly and whether or not my plan was valid. I know it'd probably increase the cost to entry but I really think the PPL should include an instrument rating (with all of the currency requirements it has now). Once you let the horse out of the gate you have no idea where it's going to run.
 
///AMG said:
I'll just drop this here for some reason. A 7 yr seniority delta bud of mine (I'm his navy XO actually, he's skipper), just asked me what an LDA approach is. I told him that I won't tell him, and that he doesn't get the O-4 fitreps and E-6 evals from me until he figures it out :)
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Has he not been to SLC?

I haven’t been there for a while, but they were famous for join the localizer 34L, do you have the field in sight? Cleared visual 34R, oh no we’re going to need you on the LDA 35 traffic 12 o’clock two miles, a Cessna 150, S-turns approved.
 
derg said:
Has he not been to SLC?

I haven’t been there for a while, but they were famous for join the localizer 34L, do you have the field in sight? Cleared visual 34R, oh no we’re going to need you on the LDA 35 traffic 12 o’clock two miles, a Cessna 150, S-turns approved.
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sound of autopilot disconnect hailer followed by autothrottle disconnect
 
derg said:
Has he not been to SLC?

I haven’t been there for a while, but they were famous for join the localizer 34L, do you have the field in sight? Cleared visual 34R, oh no we’re going to need you on the LDA 35 traffic 12 o’clock two miles, a Cessna 150, S-turns approved.
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He's also the guy who claims that none of your 737's will join a localizer in APP mode. Which I find to be questionable info
 
///AMG said:
He's also the guy who claims that none of your 737's will join a localizer in APP mode. Which I find to be questionable info
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What the deuce? Did you check if he really has a type rating? :)
 
///AMG said:
He's also the guy who claims that none of your 737's will join a localizer in APP mode. Which I find to be questionable info
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A while back, you may have challenged me for an example of a “double-dipper” who treats their airline job like a hobby…😂
 
Maximilian_Jenius said:
Pilot mills, gonna pilot mill, I guess. I still remember when I went to Westwind for a simple checkout. They made me take two written test. Basically do an oral afterwards, before going flying. It took about three hours total. I love mom & pops. A checkout flight is so simple. Give them your logbook. CFI pages through it. Tells you what he/she's looking for, then you go and fly and at the end you get signed off, or not. If only M&P's had the access to DPE's in today's world, that pilot mills do. Sigh.
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Is Aero Guard/Trans PAC/Pan Am all Chinese students only?

Why did the Mesquite callsign disappear?
 
ahw01 said:
@tcco94 was more recent but it was definitely all Chinese when I was at WW. I just remember Transpac call signs, nothing else.
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It’s been a while but it was majority Chinese while I was there. I taught Sichuan Airlines class but Xiamen was huge and China Eastern had a decent amount too. But we also had Vietnam Airlines students, I only ever instructed one. They were a bit different because those students actually paid for their training vs the traditional Chinese route where they were hired by the airline and weren’t paying anything to train. I don’t remember us having any other airlines than Vietnam. Then of course they had American students but that program was low.

Not sure about call sign change. I left when the new owners bought it and were in the process of name change etc.

They would assign you a “class” that was tied to an airline. Then you usually got 4 students and those were you students from PPL to as high as you could take em. My class had 12 kids but when the other 2 instructors went to the airlines, during their instrument, I ended up with all 12 lol. That’s how badly everyone was hurting for CFI’s.
 
tcco94 said:
It’s been a while but it was majority Chinese while I was there. I taught Sichuan Airlines class but Xiamen was huge and China Eastern had a decent amount too. But we also had Vietnam Airlines students, I only ever instructed one. They were a bit different because those students actually paid for their training vs the traditional Chinese route where they were hired by the airline and weren’t paying anything to train. I don’t remember us having any other airlines than Vietnam. Then of course they had American students but that program was low.

Not sure about call sign change. I left when the new owners bought it and were in the process of name change etc.

They would assign you a “class” that was tied to an airline. Then you usually got 4 students and those were you students from PPL to as high as you could take em. My class had 12 kids but when the other 2 instructors went to the airlines, during their instrument, I ended up with all 12 lol. That’s how badly everyone was hurting for CFI’s.
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Yeh WW was the Korean air outfit and I was still able to train/rent in 2013 (when there was the April 4th takeoff accident) but that was my last trip.

NTSB Docket - Docket Management System

data.ntsb.gov data.ntsb.gov

To bring this thread on track PT 141 used to have set cross countries e.g. ELP. Pt 61 not so much but definitely a well worn route with not much deviation. Sedona was considered risky.
 
ahw01 said:
To bring this thread on track PT 141 used to have set cross countries e.g. ELP. Pt 61 not so much but definitely a well worn route with not much deviation. Sedona was considered risky.
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My flight school in Camarillo required specific qualification for AVX, but they were not opposed to you going there post-that qual.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
My flight school in Camarillo required specific qualification for AVX, but they were not opposed to you going there post-that qual.
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Special checkouts to Catalina and Big Bear seem to be par for the course amongst socal flight schools. For good reason I think. And like you said once you prove your competence they’re fair game.
 
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