Bye bye Medevac

BEEF SUPREME said:
The MIL folks seem very fortunate to have a backup career they can utilize for the rough times. One of my classmates just bailed for the entire pandemic. If I had the option I'd definitely leave for a year or 5 right now.
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then they come back with 3 years seniority and are all “wHy Do We NeEd QoL iMpRoVeMeNtS fOr ReSeRvEs?!??”
 
Roger Roger said:
then they come back with 3 years seniority and are all “wHy Do We NeEd QoL iMpRoVeMeNtS fOr ReSeRvEs?!??”
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Just discovered we aren’t protected with 5 days off in a row anymore.

I’ve been desperately trying to reach someone at the MEC who cares.

The response is more than demoralizing and I’m battling to just point out that when things get busy it will be very bad for FOs and CAs who are unstacked and can’t trade days.

Apparently though no one at the MEC seems to think no more than 3 days off in a row for 11 months a year is a big deal.

I’m trying for you guys and of course myself but I’m not even getting a shred of empathy at present.
 
BEEF SUPREME said:
Just discovered we aren’t protected with 5 days off in a row anymore.

I’ve been desperately trying to reach someone at the MEC who cares.

The response is more than demoralizing and I’m battling to just point out that when things get busy it will be very bad for FOs and CAs who are unstacked and can’t trade days.

Apparently though no one at the MEC seems to think no more than 3 days off in a row for 11 months a year is a big deal.

I’m trying for you guys and of course myself but I’m not even getting a shred of empathy at present.
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??

You SEA Capt?

I count 8 days that are red in August, as of this post. That means 23 days of the month are green, and you are free to move your reserve days around to create as much of a days off in a row spread you can muster. Keeping in mind the 8 red days, and the usual legalities of no less than 3 rsv days in a row and 6 max in a row.

You should easily be able to move your reserve days to pull 5-7 off in a row.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
??

You SEA Capt?

I count 8 days that are red in August, as of this post. That means 23 days of the month are green, and you are free to move your reserve days around to create as much of a days off in a row spread you can muster. Keeping in mind the 8 red days, and the usual legalities of no less than 3 rsv days in a row and 6 max in a row.

You should easily be able to move your reserve days to pull 5-7 off in a row.
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Yes yes. “Should easily” move my days around. The 8 days of unstacking? Every weekend. So the best one could do on reserve is 5 days off that happen to be weekdays. After speaking with the MEC in great detail. I’ve discovered that reserves have zero protection from unstacking. None.

IMG_8674.png

That’s what every month at Eskimo will look like for reserves.

Thankfully I had a call out that let me arrive at RNO before 9AM and I was able to attempt to trade at the start of feeding frenzy. Here are the results:

IMG_8662.png


I’ve got more but don’t feel like posting them.

The worst part about the new system is that we gave up on RAP+3. That’s right. If a pilot is DH they can be kept on duty almost indefinitely. You get zero scheduled credit for the time you’ve been on call. With widebodys coming apparently this should be on everyone’s radar. But the best I can get is mocking from some guy I’m covering flights for in his base right now.

Yep that’s right. I was on the clock at 2AM and I’m DH to MSP to cover an LAX trip. I haven’t done the math to see what kind of duty day I’ll have but it wouldn’t have been allowed under our old contract.

Instead of thanking me for covering trips in your base and ensuring you can sit at home on reserve and pick up on your days off, you’ll mock me and brag about the new payscale the MEC just emailed out yesterday.
 
BEEF SUPREME said:
Yes yes. “Should easily” move my days around. The 8 days of unstacking? Every weekend. So the best one could do on reserve is 5 days off that happen to be weekdays. After speaking with the MEC in great detail. I’ve discovered that reserves have zero protection from unstacking. None.

View attachment 78822

That’s what every month at Eskimo will look like for reserves.

Thankfully I had a call out that let me arrive at RNO before 9AM and I was able to attempt to trade at the start of feeding frenzy. Here are the results:

View attachment 78823

I’ve got more but don’t feel like posting them.

The worst part about the new system is that we gave up on RAP+3. That’s right. If a pilot is DH they can be kept on duty almost indefinitely. You get zero scheduled credit for the time you’ve been on call. With widebodys coming apparently this should be on everyone’s radar. But the best I can get is mocking from some guy I’m covering flights for in his base right now.

Yep that’s right. I was on the clock at 2AM and I’m DH to MSP to cover an LAX trip. I haven’t done the math to see what kind of duty day I’ll have but it wouldn’t have been allowed under our old contract.

Instead of thanking me for covering trips in your base and ensuring you can sit at home on reserve and pick up on your days off, you’ll mock me and brag about the new payscale the MEC just emailed out yesterday.
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Don’t forget they awarded part time lines (which went senior) because a bunch of dudes (who are probably also senior) whined about their gravy train of 85 hour awards plus picking up on days off going away.
 
Roger Roger said:
Don’t forget they awarded part time lines (which went senior) because a bunch of dudes (who are probably also senior) whined about their gravy train of 85 hour awards plus picking up on days off going away.
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The best part about all of this is every single time I’ve been in contact with the MEC they lecture me about the lost decade and how bad things were before acknowledging that “yeah we forgot to add the 5 days off in a row for reserves to NAV Blue.”

Because I really need to hear about an easier version of the worst years of my life before someone listens to legitimate concerns about a brand new reserve system with glaring unresolved issues.
 
I was taught never to use “Shift”

Always use “Multi Shift”

Even if you’re only moving one day. Apparently, shift logic is the entire chain of those block of days has to move.

Seems moot in this case, the weekend went bad coverage.

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I was reserve too, for years under the old system and some months in the new system (pre May). And bid reserve in May under the newest system.

Can you explain what you mean by RAP+3 ? You said we gave up on that. We used to have 14 hr RAPs. So say I was the 1800-0800 RAP

What is the RAP+ 3 thing?




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As for the DH, they cannot give you a DH to just sit in an airport on reserve. If they give you a DH, it has to be to an overnight rest, or, a flight assignment that very day. Right?


Btw, as a LAX guy I too got MANY deadheads to SEA, and then do SEA stuff the same day or next day). And even worse than SEA, LA reserves are also reserves for SAN (and a reason I don’t think we’ll see a SAN base anytime soon). Countless times in limo to/from SAN. And BUR, SNA too.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
I was taught never to use “Shift”

Always use “Multi Shift”

Even if you’re only moving one day. Apparently, shift logic is the entire chain of those block of days has to move.

Seems moot in this case, the weekend went bad coverage.

==============================



I was reserve too, for years under the old system and some months in the new system (pre May). And bid reserve in May under the newest system.

Can you explain what you mean by RAP+3 ? You said we gave up on that. We used to have 14 hr RAPs. So say I was the 1800-0800 RAP

What is the RAP+ 3 thing?




===============================




As for the DH, they cannot give you a DH to just sit in an airport on reserve. If they give you a DH, it has to be to an overnight rest, or, a flight assignment that very day. Right?


Btw, as a LAX guy I too got MANY deadheads to SEA, and then do SEA stuff the same day or next day). And even worse than SEA, LA reserves are also reserves for SAN (and a reason I don’t think we’ll see a SAN base anytime soon). Countless times in limo to/from SAN. And BUR, SNA too.
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I used multi shift and then shift. Nothing worked. RAP + 3 was the old contract limit on your duty day. So you couldn’t be DH around in perpetuity without any duty limits. We’ve now lost that protection. Along with 5 days off in a row. I was assigned a pilot non contactable inside of 6 minutes when I missed a call. So we have no protection there as well.

I’m certain that next month I will discover some other horror caused by our new wonderful reserve system.
 
I see the VRBOs as a win. The sr people who want to fly a lot can fly a lot, people who want a part time month can do that (I think it went as jr as 80ish% in ANC), and it leaves a little more trip variety for everyone else.

Obviously every base is different but the most jr pilots are getting lines the last few months, especially with SCs getting 84 hours in August.
 
BEEF SUPREME said:
I used multi shift and then shift. Nothing worked. RAP + 3 was the old contract limit on your duty day. So you couldn’t be DH around in perpetuity without any duty limits. We’ve now lost that protection. Along with 5 days off in a row. I was assigned a pilot non contactable inside of 6 minutes when I missed a call. So we have no protection there as well.

I’m certain that next month I will discover some other horror caused by our new wonderful reserve system.
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I’m confused. Can you give an example of the DH in perpetuity? You should still have RAP and FDP limits similar to the old contract. What is the new example that sucks now, compared to the old contract.

Not trolling you, just legit want to know - as I do bid reserve on occasion.


Yes, 5 days off (or rather 120 hrs off) is gone now. You can bid for 5 days off in a row, fairly easily.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
I’m confused. Can you give an example of the DH in perpetuity? You should still have RAP and FDP limits similar to the old contract. What is the new example that sucks now, compared to the old contract.

Not trolling you, just legit want to know - as I do bid reserve on occasion.


Yes, 5 days off (or rather 120 hrs off) is gone now. You can bid for 5 days off in a row, fairly easily.
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Right now the company is only unstacking on weekends. The company can unstack reserves as much as they want. So if they unstack Friday-Sun. Or Friday-Monday every weekend of the month it will be impossible to get 5 days off in a row in your bid. Once things get back to typically busy this will become a big issue.

There is no RAP limit in the new contract. If you're at the end of your RAP you can be DH anywhere and you have zero protections.
 
BEEF SUPREME said:
Right now the company is only unstacking on weekends. The company can unstack reserves as much as they want. So if they unstack Friday-Sun. Or Friday-Monday every weekend of the month it will be impossible to get 5 days off in a row in your bid. Once things get back to typically busy this will become a big issue.

There is no RAP limit in the new contract. If you're at the end of your RAP you can be DH anywhere and you have zero protections.
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But the new RAPs are shorter, right? 14 hrs prior. 12 hrs now. I still don’t get the old +3 hr rule you said, but if you use that today, old rules would mean 14 hr RAP plus 3 hrs is 17 or now 12 + 3 = 15.

I’ll have to look it up, but I do believe the union and company have an understanding on DHDs and your total duty day (despite DH at the end not being a FDP).
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
But the new RAPs are shorter, right? 14 hrs prior. 12 hrs now. I still don’t get the old +3 hr rule you said, but if you use that today, old rules would mean 14 hr RAP plus 3 hrs is 17 or now 12 + 3 = 15.

I’ll have to look it up, but I do believe the union and company have an understanding on DHDs and your total duty day (despite DH at the end not being a FDP).
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I think it was that on your first day that you got used you could only be flown past the end of your RAP by 3 hours. Like you, I’d have to look and my iPad is downstairs, so meh.
 
Roger Roger said:
Don’t forget they awarded part time lines (which went senior) because a bunch of dudes (who are probably also senior) whined about their gravy train of 85 hour awards plus picking up on days off going away.
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I mean, on the FO side, it isn't *that* senior. The guys directly above and below me were both awarded VRBOs next month. At least I don't think I'm anything close to senior.
 
ShortField said:
I think it was that on your first day that you got used you could only be flown past the end of your RAP by 3 hours. Like you, I’d have to look and my iPad is downstairs, so meh.
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That’s correct. We no longer have that protection. And with the way DH work with 117 it could mean a very long day. Extremely long if we wind up with 787s.
 
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