Bye bye Medevac

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Even though I don't work for the same company I like to get an idea of the differences in contracts.

No worries, I didn’t say anything.



It’s a win-win for us. Too many pilots can’t hold summer vacation. Now you can be off and do maybe two 3-day trips the whole month (or whatever other combo to get 35-45 hrs).

We are overstaffed. So this is one way to reduce costs for the company.

 

[///AMG]

Even though I don't work for the same company I like to get an idea of the differences in contracts.

Someone better read than I can interject, but I can't remember if this is 2022 contractual language or an interim LOA, but IMHO it is a good idea. I bet a lot more folks than those awarded would gladly take a VRBO from time to time. Though a bunch of my navy/Delta buds are now on day 6 of being stranded, and looking down the barrel of 170+ hr credit months lol.....a few of them being NB CAs. So there is some room for growth in our next contract. We can do better with trip disruption and SIO language for sure. I hope to see premium become more common again here, when we are down on res pilots, as we have been since PBS. And since someone is gonna call me out, I also think the reserve language needs another overhaul now that we have seen the current language implemented.

 

[alaskadrifter]

Someone better read than I can interject, but I can't remember if this is 2022 contractual language or an interim LOA, but IMHO it is a good idea. I bet a lot more folks than those awarded would gladly take a VRBO from time to time. Though a bunch of my navy/Delta buds are now on day 6 of being stranded, and looking down the barrel of 170+ hr credit months lol.....a few of them being NB CAs. So there is some room for growth in our next contract. We can do better with trip disruption and SIO language for sure. I hope to see premium become more common again here, when we are down on res pilots, as we have been since PBS. And since someone is gonna call me out, I also think the reserve language needs another overhaul now that we have seen the current language implemented.

It’s a recent LOA within the last few months. I’d love to see either an extra day off for reserves or a higher guarantee, as well as an 18 hour LC call out. Then I think it would go senior.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

It’s a recent LOA within the last few months. I’d love to see either an extra day off for reserves or a higher guarantee, as well as an 18 hour LC call out. Then I think it would go senior.

Anyone who actually reads the contract won’t be bidding for reserve if it gets busy.

There are almost no protections for reserve. There is basically no unstacking limit, no time limit for call back to get a PNC. There is no duty limit for DH. Even though we are overstaffed it isn’t possible to trade between two weekdays. Due to unstacking weekends are impossible to trade at any time.

 

[Roger Roger]

Anyone who actually reads the contract won’t be bidding for reserve if it gets busy.

There are almost no protections for reserve. There is basically no unstacking limit, no time limit for call back to get a PNC. There is no duty limit for DH. Even though we are overstaffed it isn’t possible to trade between two weekdays. Due to unstacking weekends are impossible to trade at any time.

View attachment 78872View attachment 78872

Is trading any different now? I was only on reserve for a couple months of the old system but I seem to recall at least in SFO you still couldn’t really trade days off, you basically got what you got.

 

[Roger Roger]

It’s a recent LOA within the last few months. I’d love to see either an extra day off for reserves or a higher guarantee, as well as an 18 hour LC call out. Then I think it would go senior.

12/13 days off for the bases that are commuter heavy (looking at you SFO and LAX) is just brutal.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

Is trading any different now? I was only on reserve for a couple months of the old system but I seem to recall at least in SFO you still couldn’t really trade days off, you basically got what you got.

It’s not. Weekends off are still in super high demand so those are basically not possible.

For now weekdays are 5/10 possible. Increasingly less likely as you get closer to Friday.

Staffing drives this but through a different methodology. The new methodology is unstacking. I’ve discussed it with almost every FO I have flown with because almost all of them are under 50% seniority and most are under 70% seniority.

It’s paramount that one reads the PBS authorized letter and understands how it works and what it means for you. This trend will get worse for everyone junior as staffing reaches normal levels.

For reserves there is effectively no unstacking limit. With a staffing squeeze similar to 2023 or 2022, we could have a situation where junior FOs only get 2-3 days off in a row for 11 months a year.

If I could sell my travel benefits back to AS similar to vacation, I would. There will be no way to use your travel benefits unless on a vacation month.

 

[///AMG]

For my own edification, could someone explain what "unstacking" means? I've asked this question in conversation, but it had to do with the line bidding process (in PBS, not traditional "line bidding"), and my understanding was it generally meant the process over overriding seniority to ensure a certain amount of trips of each category were left down the line......which is probably a wildly inaccurate recollection....

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

For my own edification, could someone explain what "unstacking" means? I've asked this question in conversation, but it had to do with the line bidding process (in PBS, not traditional "line bidding"), and my understanding was it generally meant the process over overriding seniority to ensure a certain amount of trips of each category were left down the line......which is probably a wildly inaccurate recollection....

So after everyone gets their line there is a stack of trips. The computer unstacks these trips onto your line in reverse seniority order. So as we all saw from 3rd step the main things left over are ANC and FAI red eye turns. Those fit perfectly in your 3 days off.

During a holiday month 50% seniority and lower get this treatment. Normal months 70% and lower.

The number of trips that can be shoved on your line (unstacked) is governed by average line value. So you can protect yourself by bidding for a monthly work load above the ALV.

ALV can be pushed to 87 hours and is only governed by trailing line value. TLV needs to remain below 83 hours average for the year. This is the same as a flex month. But the methodology is different.

For example if the July ALV is 87 hrs you must bid for 87 hrs of flying. If you have 79 hrs you’ll get an ANC red eye turn shoved onto your line if you’re not above 50% seniority.

Reserve pilots will bear the brunt of this since most people will just call out sick for a red eye they “didn’t bid for.”

Reserve pilots can have reserve days unstacked onto their reserve line without protection. So in theory reserve pilots could be working every weekend. Or Thursday-Sunday.

 

[Rocketman99]

<many words>

FFS are you ever happy anywhere? If it sucks so much being a CA in SEA on reserve, then bid back to FO and be a more senior lineholder. At the end of the day, you still created your own mess you complain about.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

FFS are you ever happy anywhere? If it sucks so much being a CA in SEA on reserve, then bid back to FO and be a more senior lineholder. At the end of the day, you still created your own mess you complain about.

Of course. You can’t be bottom 10 in any base as CA and expect sympathy. How many FOs have skipped upgrade? 600? There’s a reason for that. Bottom barrel reserve sucks.

 

[Rocketman99]

Of course. You can’t be bottom 10 in any base as CA and expect sympathy. How many FOs have skipped upgrade? 600? There’s a reason for that. Bottom barrel reserve sucks.

Man, you can't make me go around liking posts of yours. Enjoy your reluctant "like." :-D

 

[DE727UPS]

What are the rigs like? At UPS the trip rig (time away from base) got you 6.4 hours per day which made long trip productive.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

Of course. You can’t be bottom 10 in any base as CA and expect sympathy. How many FOs have skipped upgrade? 600? There’s a reason for that. Bottom barrel reserve sucks.

800. So I never really got a great line as an FO and the staffing shortages made it impossible to trade or drop. The reserve system changed after I bid for upgrade and I'm trying to convey how bad the new system is if you aren't in one of the privileged bases.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

FFS are you ever happy anywhere? If it sucks so much being a CA in SEA on reserve, then bid back to FO and be a more senior lineholder. At the end of the day, you still created your own mess you complain about.

I'm factually describing the new reserve system. It's weird that you have a visceral reaction to this. I feel like it's actually you who are angry/unhappy because I'm just factually describing what the reserve system is like. And you are having this negative reaction.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

What are the rigs like? At UPS the trip rig (time away from base) got you 6.4 hours per day which made long trip productive.

5:15 per day. Some trips are more than that but I haven't seen one in a while. People don't call out sick for the productive trips very often.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

More accurately, 5:15 average daily guarantee.


A day trip is 5 hr min.

A day trip that technically touches two days, eg, a redeye SEA-ANC turn is still min 5 hrs.

2, 3, and 4 day mins are 10:30, 15:45, and 21 respectively at the mentioned 5:15 ADG



Duty period trips give 5 hrs per DP.

Example, I had a 3-day trip that checked in 615am and done day 3 at 3pm. Actual block 8.4 hrs. But the min pay was 20 hrs for this 3 day because it was 4 DPs.


At 615am checkin, DH from LA to HNL. Day sleep. Now redeye to SAN, landing AM of day 2. Day sleep again. Then night flight to SEA, overnight. Last day DH back to LA. That’s 4 separate DPs in a 3 day, so 20 hrs total pay.



And I’d have to look it up, but I believe we kept all other standard rigs. 2:1 and 3.75:1

 

[///AMG]

People don't call out sick for the productive trips very often.

This is probably the crux of the problem, while being on reserve. And anything left in OT is probably garbage. I had some 22+ credit 3 days, all day flying (early check ins though), in the last couple months since the start of PBS. I don't think it would be inaccurate to say that our contract still poops hardest on RSV pilots.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

This is probably the crux of the problem, while being on reserve. And anything left in OT is probably garbage. I had some 22+ credit 3 days, all day flying (early check ins though), in the last couple months since the start of PBS. I don't think it would be inaccurate to say that our contract still poops hardest on RSV pilots.

Meh. I'm only surprised that the new reserve system is worse than the old reserve system. The old system had RAP+3 and you'd get a stretch of 5 days off every month to decompress and not have to deal with work. Now the reserves are working longer days with only 3 day breaks, 4 if their trades go through. They can also be kept on reserve almost the full 12 hours and then be assigned a DH transcon. The old contract they couldn't do that.

Not looking for sympathy at all. I did this to myself but it's a lot worse than the old system and the new system was sold as better than the old system.

 

[Rocketman99]

I'm factually describing the new reserve system. It's weird that you have a visceral reaction to this. I feel like it's actually you who are angry/unhappy because I'm just factually describing what the reserve system is like. And you are having this negative reaction.

Whether accurately describing the system or not it still completely came across as whining, which I must point out is the typical tone of the large majority of your posts. I just happened to be bored enough to comment today. Sorry not sorry.

Anyway, as to whether the old system or new system is better, I can't speak to that at all. I was extremely fortunate to pretty much go straight to being a line holder with 2 months as a new hire. So I really have no experience with either system. I further have no intention of even considering taking an upgrade until I am more than halfway up the base seniority list of CA lineholders, so I very likely wouldn't experience it then either. The pay raise does not remotely make up for the QOL hit, I don't currently actually need it in any way, and I don't measure my self-worth by the ability to tell people "I'm an airline Captain." I can make my life miserable enough on my own if I so choose. I can't fathom why the hell I would let the company do it for me by completely handing them the reigns to my work life.

If you want my advice (which I doubt you do, but I'm going to give it anyway because internet) it really sounds to me like you should either bid a different reserve, bid out of SEA, or bid back to the right seat. There's a fourth option too, but I'm just not going to mention it.