Briefing approaches?

[Autothrust Blue]

If your briefing lasts longer than 60 seconds, you are most likely briefing too much BS 99% of the time.

I mean, it's called a briefing...

 

[Deleted member 27505]

A good approach to fly for a checkride is any that says "VOR or TACAN Rwy XX", since if you screw up and forget to select the appropriate mode select [VOR vs TAC], you're still fine.

I like your style. Comports with my available bandwidth.

 

[Deleted member 27505]

I mean, it's called a briefing...

I always confirm the location of the best restaurant near the hotel.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

I always confirm the location of the best restaurant near the hotel.

My takeoff briefing out of LAX contains:
"If we lose an engine after V1, it's heading 249, flaps up at 1126 feet or thereabouts; we'll make left traffic for whatever runway on the south side that we want, land, park, and go to the Proud Bird..."

 

[Deleted member 27505]

Favorite runway exit instruction I ever heard (not issued to me).
A DC-10 was a little high and hot into San Jose and rolled long. San Jose Tower: "XXX 751 heavy, turn right at the end, if able. If unable, take the Guadalupe exit off Highway 101, make a right at the light and return to the airport."

 

[dvtpilot]

I brought this up to a sim instructor in recurrent. The reasoning he gave for giving a "full plate" brief to a visual approach was if you happened to go around and lose comms, I guess he thinks doing the published ILS missed to that runway is appropriate. I dunno sometimes I wonder if these guys ever get out on the line at all. I was thinking "If I go around after cleared for a visual approach, and happen to lose all 3 comm radios at that time (or the tower loses their primary and backup and backup to backup) then I would think the best course of action is to fly a downwind and wait for a light gun signal rather than just go trodding off into the unknown". Just me though.

You're dangerous!

But I totally agree.

 

[A150K]

I brought this up to a sim instructor in recurrent. The reasoning he gave for giving a "full plate" brief to a visual approach was if you happened to go around and lose comms, I guess he thinks doing the published ILS missed to that runway is appropriate. I dunno sometimes I wonder if these guys ever get out on the line at all. I was thinking "If I go around after cleared for a visual approach, and happen to lose all 3 comm radios at that time (or the tower loses their primary and backup and backup to backup) then I would think the best course of action is to fly a downwind and wait for a light gun signal rather than just go trodding off into the unknown". Just me though.

I'm with you. The sim instructor's odd reccomendation sounds like a recipe for a trafic conflict IMO. Plus, what does he prpose you do after you fly the published miss? Crash?

 

[PhilosopherPilot]

Threat and error management, dude. TEM is a conceptual underpinning for much of what we do here in terms of safety practices, in fact. It's good stuff and all operators should be using TEM concepts.

Threats are things that are beyond the immediate control of a flight crew. A threat unmanaged becomes an error; an error unmanaged becomes an undesired aircraft state. And an undesired aircraft state left unmanaged may result in anything from a clipped wingtip to a smoking crater and dead bodies. For instance:

"The biggest threat on our approach to Los Angeles today will be wake turbulence; to mitigate this threat, I will fly the approach deliberately one dot high and land beyond the proceeding heavy Airbus's touchdown point."

He's just taking "threat" to mean the worst possible outcome or "imminent threat of crashing," not the common aviation usage. We spoke about it in a private message. He gets it, but objects to the word "threat."

 

[ASpilot2be]

With our flying out of Nome we have a couple different step downs in the TAA, so I like to brief what we can go down to. http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1309/01231R10.PDF I also like to think about what I am going to expect to see when I break out. Flying out west there are a lot of little squalls that blow through which can drop the visibility, then go back to great visibility.

 

[MidlifeFlyer]

No kidding. I've never understood why VTF drops all the outer fixes (except maybe on older FMSs.) In the era of moving maps, why not keep all that additional situational awareness available? Certainly programmers are smart enough to keep the other fixes visible while ignoring them for sequencing when one selects the VTF button.

I haven't checked on this myself, but I've heard there's an upcoming AIM change that advises pilots not to load VTF.

Another peave... WTF isn't the procedure for activation the missed standardized?

Different manufacturers, different products, different attention to UI. Personally, I would not want to discourage making these things better and more intuitive. FAA standardization would probably discourage innovation. What if, for example, the FAA liked the KLN 90b when it first came out it used that as the standard?

 

[z987k]

I haven't checked on this myself, but I've heard there's an upcoming AIM change that advises pilots not to load VTF.

Loading only VTF is certainly not the smartest thing. There are many airports where you will be getting vectors, then get a turn to final with a maintain 3000 until X, cleared approach, but X is not the FAF, now you don't have the waypoint in the box, and have to figure it out by it's distance from the FAF, if there's other step downs now you're looking at some quick mental math while keeping that turn coming, maintaining altitude(or making sure the AP doesn't mess it up). Basically making it harder on yourself.
I always use it on a visual though.

 

[n57flyguy]

I'm a student of the belief that Jepp did a great job rewriting the approach plate in a format where following the pate from top to bottom is an effective approach briefing. Such a good job, in fact, that NACO stole it right away.

The only modification I make to the top-to-bottom methodology is to look at the plan view first. That's my chance to get the 20,000' view of the approach and my current position with respect to it. That gives me a context for the approach and how I will be getting there that helps in doing such things as what transitions to expect, what IAF to select (I never load vectors to final on a GPS or GPS-monitored approach - all you need is one ATC instruction to proceed direct to an intermediate fix that isn't displayed to convince you of that one), helps me immensely with the memorization of courses and distances and may even lead me to select a different approach altogether (especially to non-towered fields).

PS. I don't need a mnemonic or acronym to remember that getting the weather is important. My SOP is to get the weather as far out as I can just so I can anticipate which approach I will be using.

That is a pain, if using a 430, activate legs is your best friend. I have used it numerous times for that very situation when I thought all was right with ATC. The 430 will provided sequencing from there on out to.

 

[cmhumphr]

For visual approaches, everyone usually just says its visual backed up by the ILS and they say the frequency and final approach course. Anything that isn't practiced as much as an ILS such as an LDA, RNAV, or Backcourse I try to brief a little more thoroughly.

 

[Boris Badenov]

My instrument instructor taught me ICE-ATM many moons ago. Works good, lasts long time, for single-pilot ops, anyway. I might add something about verifying that you're looking at the right plate. Obviously, you can add all sorts of advisable-but-not-absolutely-fundamental stuff to it, but I like to KISS, when it comes to acronyms.

Identify
Course
Entry
Altitudes
Time
Missed Approach Procedure.

 

[Deleted member 27505]

I haven't checked on this myself, but I've heard there's an upcoming AIM change that advises pilots not to load VTF.
Different manufacturers, different products, different attention to UI. Personally, I would not want to discourage making these things better and more intuitive. FAA standardization would probably discourage innovation. What if, for example, the FAA liked the KLN 90b when it first came out it used that as the standard?

Yup, I totally get that. But IMHO, based on the evolution of the UIs, I'm not convinced much attention at all is being given to UIs. I haven't played with some of the ultra new jet stuff yet, so maybe that's better. But as for, say, Garmin, the newest stuff has UIs only a computer geek could love. Did they even put real pilots in the cockpit for testing/feedback?
Kurtz: "Captain, do you disapprove of my methods?"
Captain: "Frankly, sir, I don't see any method at all."

 

[Kingairer]

At my company we have a very specific order listed on the back of the checklist as to what should be briefed. I do them as stated there. I didn't write the manual or procedure, as I am not a huge fan of super detailed briefings. I heard a story about an old "commuter" captain, that when it was his leg and takeoff he would just pound his chest a couple of times and point down the runway.

 

[BobDDuck]

I heard a story about an old "commuter" captain, that when it was his leg and takeoff he would just pound his chest a couple of times and point down the runway.

True story bro. We had a guy that did that. His approach brief was something like "I'm gonna land the ####### plane. Got a problem with that?" It was... interesting.

 

[MidlifeFlyer]

Yup, I totally get that. But IMHO, based on the evolution of the UIs, I'm not convinced much attention at all is being given to UIs. I haven't played with some of the ultra new jet stuff yet, so maybe that's better. But as for, say, Garmin, the newest stuff has UIs only a computer geek could love. Did they even put real pilots in the cockpit for testing/feedback?

I guess I have to admit being a computer geek. But Garmin's market share certainly reflects there are many others.

There are definitely things I dislike about the Garmin "flow." But that's true of everything electronic. Personally, I really like flying with the Garmin GTN touchscreen series even though I don't particularly like its similar flow iPad app.

I still prefer market disarray to an FAA imposed UI.

 

[Deleted member 27505]

I heard a story about an old "commuter" captain, that when it was his leg and takeoff he would just pound his chest a couple of times and point down the runway.

I freaking LOVE that guy!!! No barbie jets for him. I've flown with him... and his cousin. But nothing says he-man like Antonov crews in Africa! Never, ever, EVER go drinking with those guys. Drinking with those guys is a process, not an event.

 

[Rocketman99]

Sounds good to me. I heard enough briefings in my time in the air force to last the rest of my flying career. Less is more.