Becoming an Airline Pilot without a College Degree

[Hiboglossi]

I don't have the time tonight to put together a variety of sources, but lets start with a little bit of logic to chew on. If colleges were liberal, why would professors need tenure, since tenure is intended to allow professors to teach radical ideas without fear of repercussions?

Any evidence that "allowing professors to teach radical ideas" is indeed why tenure is used? Also, if your claim is true, couldn't tenure just as easily be used to protect professors with radical conservative ideas? Oh wait, I'm guessing the only "radicals" are people who disagree with you.

Expounding on my example of right-wing professors, I had one professor who was pretty clearly coasting on tenure- he frequently cancelled class and his classes were known to be pretty much guarantee an A because he simply didn't put in the effort to make it challenging or teach much. He was a pretty hard-core conservative, although he only talked about politics in class occasionally.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Brat

Dave Brat is a far-right representative who defeated Eric Cantor in a primary, claiming Cantor was too liberal. He was a college professor before his congressional career. I suspect right-wing professors are more common than most people realize, especially with the popular narrative being that colleges are supposedly bastions of liberal lunacy.

Secondly, how many colleges do you know that don't have unionized teachers, and then tell me, if you will, what political bent teachers unions tend to have?
.

You mean Teacher's Unions don't support a party that believes they shouldn't have the right to unionize, and has taken away their right to unionize in many states? Those bastards!

I'm not sure how common unionization of faculty really is at the post-secondary level. The Bureau of Labor Statistics claims there are over 1.5 million college faculty in the country, which must include mostly part-time adjunct professors for there to be that many. However, the American Association of University Professors apparently only has a membership of 47,000, which suggests few professors are actually in unions, although I am not sure how many other professor's unions there are. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Association_of_University_Professors#Collective_bargaining

. A moderate in California has nothing in common with a moderate in Texas.

Not necessarily. Liberals make up a greater portion of California's population than in most states, but the state is not homogeneous or universally left-wing. Most rural parts of California are quite conservative, usually about as much as rural areas in any other state. And conservatives within California are likely pretty similar to conservatives in other states; while this is anecdotal some of the most hard-core conservatives I know are from California.

This was on the Sacramento County Republican Party's website before the 2008 election...doesn't really seem any more liberal than republicans and conservatives most places. https://www.wired.com/2008/10/sacramento-gop/

 

[killbilly]

I don't have the time tonight to put together a variety of sources, but lets start with a little bit of logic to chew on. If colleges were liberal, why would professors need tenure, since tenure is intended to allow professors to teach radical ideas without fear of repercussions?

Bolded emphasis mine.

How did you come to this conclusion?

 

[Murdoughnut]

I fully agree, any movement beyond a region, the nation, the world should be positive to experiencing different perspectives, lifestyles, cultures, etc .

Yet the numbers seem to shown most post secondary students stay close to home.

'Niche data shows that 58 percent of students go to a college within 100 miles of their hometown, and 72 percent of students stay in-state. Only 11 percent of students venture more than 500 miles.' see complete set pf charts at https://ink.niche.com/going-away-college-data-dive-350000-hs-grads/
See the full methodology here.
also see http://www.act.org/content/act/en/n...-do-us-students-travel-to-attend-college.html



Till the military draft was discontinued in the 1970s, I think military service was the biggest and best melting pot in America other than new immigrants.

Also, all Americans are moving less and less these days. In 2013, "just 11.7 percent of us (a near record low) packed up and moved across town or the country, a huge decline from the ferment of the 1950s and 1960s." https://www.citylab.com/life/2014/04/why-americans-are-moving-less-new-jobs-arent-worth-it/8973/

Very interesting. I'm sure community colleges are responsible for a lot of that. Even as someone who taught undergrad courses online, I worry about what's lost through that medium.

I went to undergrad at Texas Tech, which was an interesting case study. The kids from around that area and the panhandle always seemed floored by things those of us from the large cities did, thought, believed, etc. So maybe even if you're not going very far, you're still benefiting from students and faculty who are.

 

[Jordan93]

The majority of college professors lean left but there’s no proof that they change students’ political leanings. There are a few nut cases in college that teach “White People are the Devil 101” but those are the minority.

 

[Bear]

majority of college professors lean left

So what % of students do you believed are exposed to these lefties? I suggest the total number is < single digit ... and surely looking at the current state of American politics, the conservative message has prevailed.

 

[Jordan93]

So what % of students do you believed are exposed to these lefties? I suggest the total number is < single digit ... and surely looking out the current state of American politics, the conservative message has prevailed.

What do you mean by exposed? Like I said in the other post, there’s no proof that these professors influence their students’ political ideology.

 

[Bear]

exposed?

mandated by the U to take required lefty classes !

 

[JordanD]

So you immediately use Alex Jones to set up a straw man, and then you jump to the conclusion that I have a conspiracy worldview? Things are pointing towards you not having a lot of intellectual honesty right now. Let me give you the definition of delusion - "an idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality or rational argument, typically a symptom of mental disorder." and then we can talk about whether it is generally accepted as reality that colleges are haven for liberal ideology.



I don't have the time tonight to put together a variety of sources, but lets start with a little bit of logic to chew on. If colleges were liberal, why would professors need tenure, since tenure is intended to allow professors to teach radical ideas without fear of repercussions?

Secondly, how many colleges do you know that don't have unionized teachers, and then tell me, if you will, what political bent teachers unions tend to have?

A lot of this may go back to your definition of what liberal and conservative means. It is very possible that someone can be extremely liberal while thinking he/she is moderate. In this case I can see why that person would not see colleges as being liberal, since he would fit right in with what he perceived to be mainstream. A moderate in California has nothing in common with a moderate in Texas.

Almost every airline pilot I know is unionized and pilots in general are some of the most rabid conservatives I've ever encountered. Lame argument.

 

[Jordan93]

mandated by the U to take required lefty classes !

I’m guessing very few.

 

[Bear]

since tenure is intended to allow professors to teach radical ideas without fear of repercussions?

Secondly, how many colleges do you know that don't have unionized teachers, and then tell me, if you will, what political bent teachers unions tend to have?

Well, my belief is the most radical ideas are coming from the parochial secondary academics / colleges with no accountability of what is taught or the academic outcomes of their graduates.
As to who is teaching in accredited institutions, most profs have no tenure, and surely no employment protection.

 

[z987k]

Almost every airline pilot I know is unionized and pilots in general are some of the most rabid conservatives I've ever encountered. Lame argument.

I do wonder what that cognative dissonance feels like.

 

[JordanD]

Isn't part of the entire point of college to expose people to other ideas, learn how to form their own viewpoints, and think for themselves? Maybe even, you know, debate different ideas? Complaining about liberal indoctrination to me comes across like you're saying people are too stupid to form their own opinions.

 

[derg]

The whole college pushing liberal ideas thing is one of the most ridiculous conspiracy theories out there. Yeah, if you go to Berkeley, that’s probably the case. But if you are worried about that and choose a school correctly, it is perfectly reasonable to go through 4+ years without giving a crap about politics.

I got my liberal indoctrination at ERAU. Lots of Noam Chomsky, Irving Gleim, John Holley, Jepessen Sanderson, all the liberal bastions of new world order thinking.

Books are dumb, lets all just mine coal.

 

[JordanD]

I got my liberal indoctrination at ERAU. Lots of Noam Irving Gleim, John Holley, Jepessen Sanderson, all the liberal bastions of new world order thinking.

Books are dumb, lets all just mine coal.

"The Oppressive Nature of NDB Navigation."
By Noam Chomsky

 

[Richman]

I got my liberal indoctrination at ERAU. Lots of Noam Chomsky, Irving Gleim, John Holley, Jepessen Sanderson, all the liberal bastions of new world order thinking.

Books are dumb, lets all just mine coal.

So I did a stint at ERAU in DAB. I used to think it was an overgrown community college, but not furnished as well, and certainly when I was there it was barely outgrowing that label. VCC had a better campus.

I went back a few weeks ago to look around. Someone got piles, and I do mean a piles, of cash. I don't know where they got it, but it wasn't from renting 172s. For a private university, I was pretty impressed at the turn around.

It may have been the same feeding trough that all universities, public and private, have enjoyed for the last 20 years, but daymn.

 

[Kingairer]

So I did a stint at ERAU in DAB. I used to think it was an overgrown community college, but not furnished as well, and certainly when I was there it was barely outgrowing that label. VCC had a better campus.

I went back a few weeks ago to look around. Someone got piles, and I do mean a piles, of cash. I don't know where they got it, but it wasn't from renting 172s. For a private university, I was pretty impressed at the turn around.

It may have been the same feeding trough that all universities, public and private, have enjoyed for the last 20 years, but daymn.

They (don’t know anything about ERAU just colleges in general) likely got it from guaranteed student loans. Colleges know they can charge anything they want, and the money will still keep coming...and the student debt keeps coming for the graduates.

 

[JordanD]

I mean, you guys have seen what they charge for tuition right?

 

[Richman]

I mean, you guys have seen what they charge for tuition right?

No doubt, but you don't go on a building spree like that on tuition money.

Every University I've been to last couple of years has been on a ridiculous building spree, and it's all first quality, top drawer construction, not the "falls down when you pee against it" variety you see so much of these days.

And that's just the building. Outfitting labs with gear is all big money. Science, engineering and the like needs gear and it ain't cheap. Having spent some of that money, believe me, all the suppliers in that chain are getting paid.

 

[JordanD]

No doubt, but you don't go on a building spree like that on tuition money.

Every University I've been to last couple of years has been on a ridiculous building spree, and it's all first quality, top drawer construction, not the "falls down when you pee against it" variety you see so much of these days.

And that's just the building. Outfitting labs with gear is all big money. Science, engineering and the like needs gear and it ain't cheap. Having spent some of that money, believe me, all the suppliers in that chain are getting paid.

Oh yeah, no doubt that's part of it too. Reminds me of the school where I grew up. Absolutely ridiculous athletic facilities built over the last 5-10 years. Surprise surprise, big scandal involving money from Adidas or something.

 

[killbilly]

No doubt, but you don't go on a building spree like that on tuition money.

Every University I've been to last couple of years has been on a ridiculous building spree, and it's all first quality, top drawer construction, not the "falls down when you pee against it" variety you see so much of these days.

And that's just the building. Outfitting labs with gear is all big money. Science, engineering and the like needs gear and it ain't cheap. Having spent some of that money, believe me, all the suppliers in that chain are getting paid.

I did a couple of sales presentations at a smaller private university in the ORF area and I was utterly blown away at the....splendor...of the place. This wasn't a STEM place either...very liberal arts place....and they had money to burn.

Especially since we won the deal.