Becoming an Airline Pilot without a College Degree

[tcco94]

You do see the irony of this statement, right?

I told him I'd love to see the study. I just don't think there's any way to change a mindset saying "when people don't go to college they vote for Trump". I'm not suggesting I won't change my stance, just saying he's working against the odds proving 63 million people are all uneducated.

I'm all ears! Prove me wrong!

 

[killbilly]

I told him I'd love to see the study. I just don't think there's any way to change a mindset saying "when people don't go to college they vote for Trump". I'm not suggesting I won't change my stance, just saying he's working against the odds proving 63 million people are all uneducated.

I'm all ears! Prove me wrong!

@jtrain609 is a pretty smart fella. I imagine he has some interesting information which is worth digesting. @Murdoughnut is our in-house statistics Wizard, if I recall correctly. You're a smart cat, too. I imagine you're interested in what data makes another reasonably intelligent person believe what they believe if for no other reason than you're curious.

And I know you're curious because you are (were) a Flight Instructor.

 

[Screaming_Emu]

Yeah I'd like to see it as well. Also, want to know how going to college means you didn't vote for Trump? You suggest we need to "push" people to college? What was your point? Send them to institutions that push liberal ideas? It's like you're suggesting someone with a higher education MUST have voted for someone else.

I really hope your "study" isn't as ignorant as your comment. Then again @ATN_Pilot argued with me how those polls with 1000 people are scientific and actually have a lot of meaning with the formulas. So I see this going no where with such a closed minded comment.

The whole college pushing liberal ideas thing is one of the most ridiculous conspiracy theories out there. Yeah, if you go to Berkeley, that’s probably the case. But if you are worried about that and choose a school correctly, it is perfectly reasonable to go through 4+ years without giving a crap about politics.

 

[tcco94]

@jtrain609 is a pretty smart fella. I imagine he has some interesting information which is worth digesting. @Murdoughnut is our in-house statistics Wizard, if I recall correctly. You're a smart cat, too. I imagine you're interested in what data makes another reasonably intelligent person believe what they believe if for no other reason than you're curious.

And I know you're curious because you are (were) a Flight Instructor.

I don't doubt that he's an intelligent guy! Seems like most people around here are! I've been proven wrong many times but I actually like reading those boring studies. Who knows maybe he's got substantial evidence that suggests his comment was right!

The whole college pushing liberal ideas thing is one of the most ridiculous conspiracy theories out there. Yeah, if you go to Berkeley, that’s probably the case. But if you are worried about that and choose a school correctly, it is perfectly reasonable to go through 4+ years without giving a crap about politics.

I definitely think some institutions push liberal ideas more than others...like you said Berkeley. I can't really say my small school did, but I had a few professors who definitely did. Not that it makes the entire college system liberal, like I wrongly suggested.

 

[Hiboglossi]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2016#Voter_demographics

This claims that Clinton won among college graduates (49% Clinton- 45% Trump) and those with postgraduate education (58% Clinton- 37% Trump); while Trump won among those with some college (43% Clinton- 52% Trump) or High School or Less (45% Clinton- 51% Trump). I have to admit I'm a bit surprised by this, since more college education generally correlates with higher income, and Trump did better among higher income brackets. Although his strongest performance was in the $50,000-$99,999 bracket. Clinton only outperformed Trump among households under $50,000 annual income.

This is a bit different from 2012, when the only education category Romney won was "College Graduate". Romney performed even better than Trump in income brackets above $50,000 but significantly worse under $50,000.

https://web.archive.org/web/20130126102046/http://www.foxnews.com/politics/elections/2012-exit-poll

The whole college pushing liberal ideas thing is one of the most ridiculous conspiracy theories out there. Yeah, if you go to Berkeley, that’s probably the case. But if you are worried about that and choose a school correctly, it is perfectly reasonable to go through 4+ years without giving a crap about politics.

I don't buy the notion that colleges are "liberal indoctrination centers". I'm not sure how typical my experience was, but when I was in college the only professors I had who were open about politics were conservative. I had one who gave a short speech at the end of class imploring us to support politicians who would enact policies favorable to "Job Creators" the day before the 2012 election. The vast majority of students who were open about politics were conservative as well, although I've noticed conservatives tend to be more open and vocal about their beliefs than liberals in general.

However, the conspiracy theory about liberal indoctrination in colleges is valuable as right-wing propaganda, since it drums up outrage among the significant portion conservatives who dislike intellectualism and/or have a venomous attitude toward college students/ young adults.

 

[Bear]

Any sense for the level of post secondary education of "Airline Pilots" beyond our borders?

 

[jtrain609]

Yeah I'd like to see it as well. Also, want to know how going to college means you didn't vote for Trump? You suggest we need to "push" people to college? What was your point? Send them to institutions that push liberal ideas? It's like you're suggesting someone with a higher education MUST have voted for someone else.

I really hope your "study" isn't as ignorant as your comment. Then again @ATN_Pilot argued with me how those polls with 1000 people are scientific and actually have a lot of meaning with the formulas. So I see this going no where with such a closed minded comment.

Here you go.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/education-not-income-predicted-who-would-vote-for-trump/

As for education changing voting patterns generally, it's a well known concept in political science. If you'd taken any Poli sci 101 course you would have been exposed to that. If you'd like some material on that issue I can dig it up.

 

[Murdoughnut]

@jtrain609 is a pretty smart fella. I imagine he has some interesting information which is worth digesting. @Murdoughnut is our in-house statistics Wizard, if I recall correctly. You're a smart cat, too. I imagine you're interested in what data makes another reasonably intelligent person believe what they believe if for no other reason than you're curious.

And I know you're curious because you are (were) a Flight Instructor.

The American National Election Survey (ANES) is the best source of methodologically sound pre and post election data there is available. It's run through the University of Michigan and is the principal data set that academics in the field of voting behavior utilize for secondary research purposes. The 2016 survey data is not available yet, but everything through 2012 is publicly available. http://www.electionstudies.org/index.html

I can save you the analysis work - there is a statistically significant correlation between level of education and vote choice. Higher levels of education always correlate with declining support for Republican candidates. There are caveats and interaction effects in the data, though, with other, extraneous and mutually correlated variables impacting this relationship. For example, a white male identifying themselves as heavily religious making $500k a year with a law or medical degree has a higher probability of being conservative.

If I asked you whether it was more important for children to be creative or obey the rules, I could predict your vote in the 2016 election with greater accuracy than if I asked you what your partisanship was. Think on that for a moment, and abandon any notions that we as humans are anything other than robots - if you know enough of the inputs in, you can predict the outputs with a high level of accuracy.

 

[BigZ]

- if you know enough of the inputs in, you can predict the outputs with a high level of accuracy.

A geneticist, a physiologist and a physicist were summoned to meet a wealthy racehorse magnate. He told them he would give a million pounds to the one who could accurately identify race-winning horses. After six months of hard work, they returned to present their results to the expectant millionaire.

The geneticist said, "I've looked into all the current genetic research, checked blood-lines going back decades, but there are just too many behavioural and environmental factors. I can't help."

The physiologist said, "I've looked at muscle mass, bone volume and density, and all the other factors I can think of, but the problem's too complex. There's just no guarantee of predicting a winner."

Finally, the physicist calmly walks up to the millionaire and gives him an index card. "Here you go," he says "I've found an equation that solves the problem for you."

"Wow," said the millionaire, "That's impressive...I'll get my cheque book."

"Great. But there's one thing you should know," said the physicist. "It only works for a spherically symmetric horse travelling in a vacuum."

 

[Murdoughnut]

A geneticist, a physiologist and a physicist were summoned to meet a wealthy racehorse magnate. He told them he would give a million pounds to the one who could accurately identify race-winning horses. After six months of hard work, they returned to present their results to the expectant millionaire.

The geneticist said, "I've looked into all the current genetic research, checked blood-lines going back decades, but there are just too many behavioural and environmental factors. I can't help."

The physiologist said, "I've looked at muscle mass, bone volume and density, and all the other factors I can think of, but the problem's too complex. There's just no guarantee of predicting a winner."

Finally, the physicist calmly walks up to the millionaire and gives him an index card. "Here you go," he says "I've found an equation that solves the problem for you."

"Wow," said the millionaire, "That's impressive...I'll get my cheque book."

"Great. But there's one thing you should know," said the physicist. "It only works for a spherically symmetric horse travelling in a vacuum."

Ha! I like that.

 

[nibake]

The whole college pushing liberal ideas thing is one of the most ridiculous conspiracy theories out there.

This statement is delusional. The rest of the post was reasonable, but this statement is certifiably delusional.

 

[z987k]

This statement is delusional. The rest of the post was reasonable, but this statement is certifiably delusional.

Only if you're so far down the Alex Jones rabbit hole that facts only reinforce your conspiracy worldview.

 

[JordanD]

This statement is delusional. The rest of the post was reasonable, but this statement is certifiably delusional.

Back up your claim.

 

[Bear]

Alex Jones rabbit hole that facts

on INFOWARS: “I know there are real mass shootings, I know people lose children. I’m a father. It hurts my heart. So I don’t know what the truth is. All I know is the official story of Sandy Hook has more holes in it than Swiss cheese.”
https://www.salon.com/2016/12/14/sa...re-lunatic-ravings-become-even-more-sinister/

and then later in 2017 with NBCs Ms Kelly: Jones concluded.

“I tend to believe that children probably did die there. But then you look at all the other evidence on the other side. I can see how other people believe that nobody died there.”

 

[Murdoughnut]

College does tend to have a liberalizing effect on students - but not because of the curriculum. When you put a kid whose lived in one area with people that look and think like him and surround him with other kids who don't look like him, and don't think like him, he's naturally going to develop sympathies and empathy for others. It's the same reason why people's attitudes towards gay marriage change when they have a gay coworker. When they talk about the effects of diversity, it's not all BS - it does actually change people's ways of thinking.

 

[tcco94]

College does tend to have a liberalizing effect on students - but not because of the curriculum. When you put a kid whose lived in one area with people that look and think like him and surround him with other kids who don't look like him, and don't think like him, he's naturally going to develop sympathies and empathy for others. It's the same reason why people's attitudes towards gay marriage change when they have a gay coworker. When they talk about the effects of diversity, it's not all BS - it does actually change people's ways of thinking.

I agree. Had the pleasure of working with plenty of gay people when I was younger and some are still close friends today. Absolutely changed my original stance on the subject.

 

[nibake]

Only if you're so far down the Alex Jones rabbit hole that facts only reinforce your conspiracy worldview.

So you immediately use Alex Jones to set up a straw man, and then you jump to the conclusion that I have a conspiracy worldview? Things are pointing towards you not having a lot of intellectual honesty right now. Let me give you the definition of delusion - "an idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality or rational argument, typically a symptom of mental disorder." and then we can talk about whether it is generally accepted as reality that colleges are haven for liberal ideology.

Back up your claim.

I don't have the time tonight to put together a variety of sources, but lets start with a little bit of logic to chew on. If colleges were liberal, why would professors need tenure, since tenure is intended to allow professors to teach radical ideas without fear of repercussions?

Secondly, how many colleges do you know that don't have unionized teachers, and then tell me, if you will, what political bent teachers unions tend to have?

A lot of this may go back to your definition of what liberal and conservative means. It is very possible that someone can be extremely liberal while thinking he/she is moderate. In this case I can see why that person would not see colleges as being liberal, since he would fit right in with what he perceived to be mainstream. A moderate in California has nothing in common with a moderate in Texas.

 

[Finny]

So you immediately use Alex Jones to set up a straw man, and then you jump to the conclusion that I have a conspiracy worldview? Things are pointing towards you not having a lot of intellectual honesty right now. Let me give you the definition of delusion - "an idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality or rational argument, typically a symptom of mental disorder." and then we can talk about whether it is generally accepted as reality that colleges are haven for liberal ideology.



I don't have the time tonight to put together a variety of sources, but lets start with a little bit of logic to chew on. If colleges were liberal, why would professors need tenure, since tenure is intended to allow professors to teach radical ideas without fear of repercussions?

Secondly, how many colleges do you know that don't have unionized teachers, and then tell me, if you will, what political bent teachers unions tend to have?

A lot of this may go back to your definition of what liberal and conservative means. It is very possible that someone can be extremely liberal while thinking he/she is moderate. In this case I can see why that person would not see colleges as being liberal, since he would fit right in with what he perceived to be mainstream. A moderate in California has nothing in common with a moderate in Texas.

Wat?

Honestly, when was the last time you step foot on a college campus or took a collegiate course?

 

[Bear]

the effects of diversity does actually change people's ways of thinking ... a liberalizing effect on students .... a kid whose lived in one area with people that look and think like him and surround him with other kids who don't look like him,

I fully agree, any movement beyond a region, the nation, the world should be positive to experiencing different perspectives, lifestyles, cultures, etc .

Yet the numbers seem to shown most post secondary students stay close to home.

'Niche data shows that 58 percent of students go to a college within 100 miles of their hometown, and 72 percent of students stay in-state. Only 11 percent of students venture more than 500 miles.' see complete set pf charts at https://ink.niche.com/going-away-college-data-dive-350000-hs-grads/
See the full methodology here.
also see http://www.act.org/content/act/en/n...-do-us-students-travel-to-attend-college.html



Till the military draft was discontinued in the 1970s, I think military service was the biggest and best melting pot in America other than new immigrants.

Also, all Americans are moving less and less these days. In 2013, "just 11.7 percent of us (a near record low) packed up and moved across town or the country, a huge decline from the ferment of the 1950s and 1960s." https://www.citylab.com/life/2014/04/why-americans-are-moving-less-new-jobs-arent-worth-it/8973/

 

[z987k]

So you immediately use Alex Jones to set up a straw man, and then you jump to the conclusion that I have a conspiracy worldview? Things are pointing towards you not having a lot of intellectual honesty right now. Let me give you the definition of delusion - "an idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality or rational argument, typically a symptom of mental disorder." and then we can talk about whether it is generally accepted as reality that colleges are haven for liberal ideology.



I don't have the time tonight to put together a variety of sources, but lets start with a little bit of logic to chew on. If colleges were liberal, why would professors need tenure, since tenure is intended to allow professors to teach radical ideas without fear of repercussions?

Secondly, how many colleges do you know that don't have unionized teachers, and then tell me, if you will, what political bent teachers unions tend to have?

A lot of this may go back to your definition of what liberal and conservative means. It is very possible that someone can be extremely liberal while thinking he/she is moderate. In this case I can see why that person would not see colleges as being liberal, since he would fit right in with what he perceived to be mainstream. A moderate in California has nothing in common with a moderate in Texas.

It's the same anti intelectual line of thinking.
It's 2017 and facts are a liberal conspiracy.